Miles M.52
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
From: UK FIR
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 0
From: Surrey Hills
Double Zero said....
"I’ve always thought whoever ‘designed’ Thunderbird One had a good look at the M.52, though TB1 was supposedly good for 24,000 MPH and VTOL to boot, so I suspect may have used a different powerplant."
Aviate1138 adds.....
The designer of Thunderbird One was Derrick Meddings, who designed most of Gerry Anderson's TV Show's craft. I was T1's pilot. And T2/T3/T4 etc. They were hung on thin tungsten wires and the 'pilot' dangled over the high speed camera and 'flew' the craft to the best of one's ability. Studio temperature was usually around 120 degrees F. No air conditioning. I served in the RAF but never as a pilot. Later flew Gliders then GA then PFA reg types. Built my own CFM Shadow, CFM Star Streak 912 and SkyArrow 650T.
The merchandising spinoff from those series made the Century 21 boss Anderson and Lew Grade[ITV] a lot of money. Derrick never got a penny.
Sorry about the thread creep but 00, you started it!
Back to the M 52 - a lot of ' If only they had flown' aeroplanes might well have changed the face of aviation...... could make a good TV Documentary series.
"I’ve always thought whoever ‘designed’ Thunderbird One had a good look at the M.52, though TB1 was supposedly good for 24,000 MPH and VTOL to boot, so I suspect may have used a different powerplant."
Aviate1138 adds.....
The designer of Thunderbird One was Derrick Meddings, who designed most of Gerry Anderson's TV Show's craft. I was T1's pilot. And T2/T3/T4 etc. They were hung on thin tungsten wires and the 'pilot' dangled over the high speed camera and 'flew' the craft to the best of one's ability. Studio temperature was usually around 120 degrees F. No air conditioning. I served in the RAF but never as a pilot. Later flew Gliders then GA then PFA reg types. Built my own CFM Shadow, CFM Star Streak 912 and SkyArrow 650T.
The merchandising spinoff from those series made the Century 21 boss Anderson and Lew Grade[ITV] a lot of money. Derrick never got a penny.
Sorry about the thread creep but 00, you started it!
Back to the M 52 - a lot of ' If only they had flown' aeroplanes might well have changed the face of aviation...... could make a good TV Documentary series.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 0
From: Surrey Hills
Derrick died 1995, sadly. He had years of good movie magic left in him but the old 'C' got him.
I remember using sacks of Blue Asbestos! as set dressing. The air was full of the stuff every time an explosion happened! Somehow no one got asbestiosis afaik.
Thread creep - Off.
I remember using sacks of Blue Asbestos! as set dressing. The air was full of the stuff every time an explosion happened! Somehow no one got asbestiosis afaik.
Thread creep - Off.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,771
Likes: 0
From: West Sussex
M-52 programme
'Back to the M 52 - a lot of ' If only they had flown' aeroplanes might well have changed the face of aviation...... could make a good TV Documentary series...'
Aviate1138, as mentioned previously, 'Sky' often air a programme about the M 52, and indeed other episodes on 'Aircraft That Never Flew' inc. British post-war projects ( jet / rocket hybrids for instance ), plus interesting ideas some of which did fly inc. German projects - saw one recently mentioning the last-ditch 'Natter' VTO tail-sitter fighter - among other things - and the Canadian Avro Arrow etc.
They also did one on the U.S. attempts at a nuclear powered bomber - does " Well, with our atomic engines we could stay up for 6 months, but we've only got 2 hours radiation shielding ! " Sound familiar ?!
Aviate1138, as mentioned previously, 'Sky' often air a programme about the M 52, and indeed other episodes on 'Aircraft That Never Flew' inc. British post-war projects ( jet / rocket hybrids for instance ), plus interesting ideas some of which did fly inc. German projects - saw one recently mentioning the last-ditch 'Natter' VTO tail-sitter fighter - among other things - and the Canadian Avro Arrow etc.
They also did one on the U.S. attempts at a nuclear powered bomber - does " Well, with our atomic engines we could stay up for 6 months, but we've only got 2 hours radiation shielding ! " Sound familiar ?!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,174
Likes: 7
From: UK
The B36 nuclear reactor carrier had so much radiation protection around the cockpit that despite six turning and four burning it was like flying a glider.
It seemed a pretty useless experiment as it wasn't nuclear powered. It just proved that you could get one airborne.
It seemed a pretty useless experiment as it wasn't nuclear powered. It just proved that you could get one airborne.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 54
From: An Island Province
Re Princess: A cross section sketch of a nuclear installation is shown in ‘The complete encyclopedia of flight 1945-2006’
M.52 is also covered in the same book, covering much of the info above.
However, Barrie Hygate’s book “British Experimental Jet Aircraft” (1941-86) has much more detail reflecting some thorough research.
Here it is suggested that the projected failure to meet the design spec of M1.5 was a significant reason for cancellation. Wind tunnel tests indicated that supersonic flight could only be achieved in a dive, and then only 1.07 due to thrust limits.
Another concern was pilot escape. Hatch jettison, for manual bail-out was tested in a blower tunnel with limited success. The alternative of separating the complete nose capsule was complex and untried.
I also detect an underlying debate on swept wing vs straight wing supersonics. The latter, being superior at very high speed, appears again in missile development, whereas swept wings were promoted for subsequent post-war transonic research and development aircraft.
M.52 is also covered in the same book, covering much of the info above.
However, Barrie Hygate’s book “British Experimental Jet Aircraft” (1941-86) has much more detail reflecting some thorough research.
Here it is suggested that the projected failure to meet the design spec of M1.5 was a significant reason for cancellation. Wind tunnel tests indicated that supersonic flight could only be achieved in a dive, and then only 1.07 due to thrust limits.
Another concern was pilot escape. Hatch jettison, for manual bail-out was tested in a blower tunnel with limited success. The alternative of separating the complete nose capsule was complex and untried.
I also detect an underlying debate on swept wing vs straight wing supersonics. The latter, being superior at very high speed, appears again in missile development, whereas swept wings were promoted for subsequent post-war transonic research and development aircraft.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
From: Colditz young offenders centre
Nuclear powered aircraft
Wiki has this to say on the subject.
Direct Air Cycle program
The General Electric program, which was based at Evendale, Ohio, was pursued because of its advantages in simplicity, reliability, suitability and quick start ability. Conventional jet engine compressor and turbine sections were used, with the compressed air run through the reactor itself to heat it before being exhausted through the turbine. This program produced the successful X-39 engine, two modified GE J47s with heat supplied by the Heat Transfer Reactor Experiment-1 (HTRE-1). The HTRE-1 was replaced by the HTRE-2 and eventually the HTRE-3 unit powering the two J47s. The HTRE-3 used "a flight-type shield system" and would probably have gone on to power the X-6 had that program been pursued.
Indirect Air Cycle program
The Indirect Air Cycle program was assigned to Pratt & Whitney, at a facility near Middletown, Connecticut. This concept would have produced far less radioactive pollution. One or two loops of liquid metal would carry the heat from the reactor to the engine. This program involved a great deal of research and development of many light-weight systems suitable for use in aircraft, such as heat exchangers, liquid-metal turbo pumps and radiators. The Indirect Cycle program never came anywhere near producing flight-ready hardware.
The General Electric program, which was based at Evendale, Ohio, was pursued because of its advantages in simplicity, reliability, suitability and quick start ability. Conventional jet engine compressor and turbine sections were used, with the compressed air run through the reactor itself to heat it before being exhausted through the turbine. This program produced the successful X-39 engine, two modified GE J47s with heat supplied by the Heat Transfer Reactor Experiment-1 (HTRE-1). The HTRE-1 was replaced by the HTRE-2 and eventually the HTRE-3 unit powering the two J47s. The HTRE-3 used "a flight-type shield system" and would probably have gone on to power the X-6 had that program been pursued.
Indirect Air Cycle program
The Indirect Air Cycle program was assigned to Pratt & Whitney, at a facility near Middletown, Connecticut. This concept would have produced far less radioactive pollution. One or two loops of liquid metal would carry the heat from the reactor to the engine. This program involved a great deal of research and development of many light-weight systems suitable for use in aircraft, such as heat exchangers, liquid-metal turbo pumps and radiators. The Indirect Cycle program never came anywhere near producing flight-ready hardware.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
From: UK
Aich!
Now I see why this never happened - direct compressed air thru the reactor or liquid metal turbopumps.
No no no no no no!
Imagine all that liquid sodium being chucked into the oggin and inside a damaged reactor in an accident!
Now I see why this never happened - direct compressed air thru the reactor or liquid metal turbopumps.
No no no no no no!
Imagine all that liquid sodium being chucked into the oggin and inside a damaged reactor in an accident!
