Possible routes of Becoming a test pilot for me!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: in the sky
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Possible routes of Becoming a test pilot for me!!
Hi Folks,
Before i tell you my situation i have read through the forum and the stuff on here does'nt apply to me i think.
So here it goes, I have always wanted to be a pilot ever since i can remember. Ok to cut a long story short i have just graduated from uni with a 2:1 (Hons) in aerospace systems engineering and want to become a test pilot, i have considered the RAF route but past max entry age last year.
I am considering going through a major FTO to get my fatpl, have already gone through the selection and been offered a place self funded in spain.
After getting my fATPL, work for a commercial airline for a number of years and then move into flight testing and possibly attend ETPS.
Are there any other ways of getting to be a test pilot, i dont think i could afford the 650K for ETPS even after working for an airline for a number of years.
Any help and suggestions are much appreciated
Thanks
Jas
Before i tell you my situation i have read through the forum and the stuff on here does'nt apply to me i think.
So here it goes, I have always wanted to be a pilot ever since i can remember. Ok to cut a long story short i have just graduated from uni with a 2:1 (Hons) in aerospace systems engineering and want to become a test pilot, i have considered the RAF route but past max entry age last year.
I am considering going through a major FTO to get my fatpl, have already gone through the selection and been offered a place self funded in spain.
After getting my fATPL, work for a commercial airline for a number of years and then move into flight testing and possibly attend ETPS.
Are there any other ways of getting to be a test pilot, i dont think i could afford the 650K for ETPS even after working for an airline for a number of years.
Any help and suggestions are much appreciated
Thanks
Jas
Educated Hillbilly
With regard to the UK "test flying " for a civil trained pilot would be limited to post maintenance test flying and fleet acceptance testing as a technical pilot for an airline.
There are so few manufacturers of complete airframes that the test pilot work in the UK (with the exception of PFA type aircraft) is in hte realms of the ex military. I have heard at Bombadier in Canada it is common practice for Flight Test Engineers whom have completed flight training to progress onto test pilot careers.
If you are interested in test flying and have missed on on joining the services then consider a career as a flight test engineer, if you want to be a commercial pilot go train as a pilot, but if you want to mix the two then unless you have Canadian or US citizenship it seems near impossible.
There are so few manufacturers of complete airframes that the test pilot work in the UK (with the exception of PFA type aircraft) is in hte realms of the ex military. I have heard at Bombadier in Canada it is common practice for Flight Test Engineers whom have completed flight training to progress onto test pilot careers.
If you are interested in test flying and have missed on on joining the services then consider a career as a flight test engineer, if you want to be a commercial pilot go train as a pilot, but if you want to mix the two then unless you have Canadian or US citizenship it seems near impossible.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: La Belle Province
Posts: 2,179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by portsharbourflyer
I have heard at Bombadier in Canada it is common practice for Flight Test Engineers whom have completed flight training to progress onto test pilot careers.
Considerably Bemused Wannabe
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sure self-funding through the ETPS, or any Flight Test School would be very expensive. Sorry, I don't have a figure to give you. I'm sure Genghis will be able to shed more light.
I believe that around £600k is the going rate for ETPS, and around US$700k for NTPS - it's not really self-funding territory. This of-course is for the long course.
You can do short courses at both, and you can find details on both organisation's websites. My recommendation would be to look hardest at NTPS, which is cheaper and not so geared to a single major customer as ETPS is. The only FT organisation that I know who have no history of employing NTPS trained people is the one that owns ETPS! (and even then, I bet they'd still look hard at you).
To (as a Brit) attend ETPS, IMHO, you need to be either a serving military pilot, or working for the MoD / Qinetiq as a flight test engineer - I'm not aware of anybody (British) in living memory doing it by any other route. That said, there are ETPS tutors who post on here, and I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong.
You could make a fair case that going for airline pilot is not the way to become a TP. That said, it's been done - and I know two people trying hard at the moment - one is self-funding through the flight test MSc at NTPS (which is expensive, but much cheaper than the "long course") the other is self funding through a PhD developing flight test techniques. Both are full time airline first-officers, self funding, but unsurprisingly very bright and motivated (which I'm sure that you are as well).
Other things that you might do?
- Simultaneously shoot for Flight Test Engineering jobs/qualifications, and flying qualifications. Eventually try and slide from the rear/right seat as FTE into the front/left seat as a TP. This has worked for a reasonable number of people (including me), but there's no standard career path and you're unlikely to ever be TP on a big jet or fighter by that route. [Me, I've done FTEing on big jets and fast jets, and TPing on lighter singles, and it's all great fun !]
- As rather more have done, fly the big jets for a living, and test fly little aircraft for satisfaction. There are quite a lot of ATPLs who also do test flying for organisations like BMAA, PFA, EAA, or smaller manufacturers. This is really for somebody with a really strong love of little aeroplanes and who has probably owned/built their own as well as their big-jet flying.
- As others have said, join the RAF/AAC/RN, and get to fly something much much sexier than an A320 anyhow, then try for ETPS after a few tours. Your degree will help you a lot there, regardless of whether it's strictly required or not.
The bottom line - you've really really want to be in flight test. Nobody drifts into the field, and you have got to make major decisions that this is the way you want to go.
G
You can do short courses at both, and you can find details on both organisation's websites. My recommendation would be to look hardest at NTPS, which is cheaper and not so geared to a single major customer as ETPS is. The only FT organisation that I know who have no history of employing NTPS trained people is the one that owns ETPS! (and even then, I bet they'd still look hard at you).
To (as a Brit) attend ETPS, IMHO, you need to be either a serving military pilot, or working for the MoD / Qinetiq as a flight test engineer - I'm not aware of anybody (British) in living memory doing it by any other route. That said, there are ETPS tutors who post on here, and I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong.
You could make a fair case that going for airline pilot is not the way to become a TP. That said, it's been done - and I know two people trying hard at the moment - one is self-funding through the flight test MSc at NTPS (which is expensive, but much cheaper than the "long course") the other is self funding through a PhD developing flight test techniques. Both are full time airline first-officers, self funding, but unsurprisingly very bright and motivated (which I'm sure that you are as well).
Other things that you might do?
- Simultaneously shoot for Flight Test Engineering jobs/qualifications, and flying qualifications. Eventually try and slide from the rear/right seat as FTE into the front/left seat as a TP. This has worked for a reasonable number of people (including me), but there's no standard career path and you're unlikely to ever be TP on a big jet or fighter by that route. [Me, I've done FTEing on big jets and fast jets, and TPing on lighter singles, and it's all great fun !]
- As rather more have done, fly the big jets for a living, and test fly little aircraft for satisfaction. There are quite a lot of ATPLs who also do test flying for organisations like BMAA, PFA, EAA, or smaller manufacturers. This is really for somebody with a really strong love of little aeroplanes and who has probably owned/built their own as well as their big-jet flying.
- As others have said, join the RAF/AAC/RN, and get to fly something much much sexier than an A320 anyhow, then try for ETPS after a few tours. Your degree will help you a lot there, regardless of whether it's strictly required or not.
The bottom line - you've really really want to be in flight test. Nobody drifts into the field, and you have got to make major decisions that this is the way you want to go.
G
Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer
The only FT organisation that I know who have no history of employing NTPS trained people is the one that owns ETPS!
Originally Posted by BossEyed
That's not actually true - there are NTPS trained staff within that organisation.
G
Considerably Bemused Wannabe
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PHF,
If you wouldn't mind, could you post your experiences here in the forum? There are many more hopefuls who would value the insight into people’s experiences of getting into Flight Testing.
eP.
If you wouldn't mind, could you post your experiences here in the forum? There are many more hopefuls who would value the insight into people’s experiences of getting into Flight Testing.
eP.
Educated Hillbilly
Easy Pilot,
My experience isn't exactly positive, I prefer not to openly post negative comments, also the aviation industry is far too small and it won't take long for people to work out whom I am working for at this moment in time.
PHF
My experience isn't exactly positive, I prefer not to openly post negative comments, also the aviation industry is far too small and it won't take long for people to work out whom I am working for at this moment in time.
PHF
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: in the sky
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi folks,
Thanks for all your comments really helpful information
As i said earlier that i have always wanted to be a pilot, but in my final year at uni i did a project on analysing lateral stability of a single seat jet using a full motion sim which got me interested in a career as a TP.
I am not really fussed if i dont get to be a TP on big jets or fighters as long as it involves flying and development testing. Had a look at the RN website couldnt find the max entry age?
Thanks for all your comments really helpful information
As i said earlier that i have always wanted to be a pilot, but in my final year at uni i did a project on analysing lateral stability of a single seat jet using a full motion sim which got me interested in a career as a TP. I am not really fussed if i dont get to be a TP on big jets or fighters as long as it involves flying and development testing. Had a look at the RN website couldnt find the max entry age?
Educated Hillbilly
Ok everyone, the major drawback for those of us born in the UK is the majority of FTO/FTE jobs available are on military aircraft (Westland Helicoptors, Qinitic), even the last remaining complete manfacturer of JAR/EASA 23 in the UK is now doing very little civil work.
So in other words none of these positions are going to allow you to progress from FTO/FTE to Test Pilot. Further to this any of the General Aviation Projects in the UK in hte past twenty years have rarely developed in to anything (Optica, Centaur Seaplane, CMC Leopard, Farnborough F1). Quite simply we no longer manufacture complete civil aircraft (bar Europa and Slingsby).
So in other words joining the military is the only realistic way of becoming a test pilot for a UK national.
One would assume that to work at Piper, Cessna or Bombadier would require US/ Canadian citizenship, as these are places where an FTO could progress to TP.
So in other words none of these positions are going to allow you to progress from FTO/FTE to Test Pilot. Further to this any of the General Aviation Projects in the UK in hte past twenty years have rarely developed in to anything (Optica, Centaur Seaplane, CMC Leopard, Farnborough F1). Quite simply we no longer manufacture complete civil aircraft (bar Europa and Slingsby).
So in other words joining the military is the only realistic way of becoming a test pilot for a UK national.
One would assume that to work at Piper, Cessna or Bombadier would require US/ Canadian citizenship, as these are places where an FTO could progress to TP.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Nirvana South
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure about (New) Piper but Bombardier, Cessna, Gulfstream & Raytheon (Beech) all have Brits in their employ to my knowledge. Don't forget that Raytheon took over the HS125 and brought almost the entire Chester design team to Wichita to build it - so much so that Airbus had to open a Design Office there to do the 380 wing (Chester did the original 'bus wings).
The main problem could be getting a visa - talked to a Gulfstream engineer last week (a fellow Brit) and he said they'd hit the limit with no new Green Cards available in their region until 2007. Not aware of any such restrictions in Canada for engineers rather than pilots (see the Canada forum for never-ending threads on that).
"The British aircraft industry is alive & well and living in Wichita, Kansas"
The main problem could be getting a visa - talked to a Gulfstream engineer last week (a fellow Brit) and he said they'd hit the limit with no new Green Cards available in their region until 2007. Not aware of any such restrictions in Canada for engineers rather than pilots (see the Canada forum for never-ending threads on that).
"The British aircraft industry is alive & well and living in Wichita, Kansas"
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NO MATE!!
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have a pretty much guaranteed prospect of not becoming a test pilot unfortunately, your chances would be a little better if you joined the air force of course, and greatly succeeded, even then you would still have very little chance. Sorry mate that’s the way it goes I’m afraid.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: La Belle Province
Posts: 2,179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ICT_SLB
Not aware of any such restrictions in Canada for engineers rather than pilots (see the Canada forum for never-ending threads on that).
The issue in Canada for someone wanting to be a development-type FTE (or TP, for that matter) is that Bombardier does all it's dev testing in the States, so the canadian elements of the company would really be more likely to look for the production test types - where generally you don't have much if anything in the way of FTE involvement, since the testing rarely justifies it.
Originally Posted by No Mate!
You have a pretty much guaranteed prospect of not becoming a test pilot unfortunately, your chances would be a little better if you joined the air force of course, and greatly succeeded, even then you would still have very little chance. Sorry mate that’s the way it goes I’m afraid.
There will always be a need for flight testers, but there has never been a need for a lot of them. So, were heavily against all of us who made it into the industry - but we still got there.
Clearly Americans have a slight advantage, because of a much larger industry, but there are still people test-flying, or working their way up, in virtually every country in the world.
G
I think not having the resources to find out the Royal Navy's entry age range doesn't bode well for a career in testing!
