Rolls Royce Test Pilots
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Rolls Royce Test Pilots
Hi,
Just a quick question. Why does Rolls Royce have test pilots? I only ask, as I can't see the need for them as RR does not manufacture aircraft directly, and their products are used by other companies. And how big is their flight-test department i.e. how many TP's do they have?
I understand Phil O'Dell (RR Chief TP) flies their company spitfire.
Thank you.
Just a quick question. Why does Rolls Royce have test pilots? I only ask, as I can't see the need for them as RR does not manufacture aircraft directly, and their products are used by other companies. And how big is their flight-test department i.e. how many TP's do they have?
I understand Phil O'Dell (RR Chief TP) flies their company spitfire.
Thank you.
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Engine mfgrs. generally have testbed aircraft flown by test pilots. Some a/c I can recall over the years - XF4D, B-17, B-47, B-52, VC-10, AJ-1, 720, 727-100, MD-80, 747, Gulfstream I, ... (This list includes aircraft flown by RR, GE, P&W, Avco etc.)
Generally used for engine development work. This can include airstart tests, envelope expansion, High AOA, crosswind, everything required to minimize the surprises when the engine enters service.
Generally used for engine development work. This can include airstart tests, envelope expansion, High AOA, crosswind, everything required to minimize the surprises when the engine enters service.
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RR Test Pilots
RR used to insist that their pilots join the aircraft development team, e.g. we had a RR tp come to Warton to do Adour development on the Jaguar. I believe they sought support from MOD to persuade BAe to agree. I could never understand the logic but they did help to progress queries and proposals raised by the home tp's. It seemed to me to be more appropriate in the civil world where they could bring RR knowledge to the manufacturer and get experience of the engine on the route by riding the jump seat.
Bearing in mind that many people regard a TP as a pilot who speaks fluent Engineer (and conversely, an FTE as an Engineer who speaks fluent pilot), I believe from occasional conversations with people at RR that the main function of their test pilots is to be
(a) Competent Test Pilots, and
(b) Fully conversant with all of RR's products and specific engine testing requirements.
So that the company can provide direct, competent, input into aircraft manufacturer's test programmes, ensuring that RR gets the testing it requires done, and the data it needs back.
Similarly, if an engine problem is found in-service, surely the most effective way that RR can gather the information it requires to solve that is to send it's own competent TP(s) to fly with the operator (or at the very least, discuss in depth what's going on).
Please take this post in the light that I've never worked for RR, and on the odd occasions I've tested RR products it was as an Engineer and we used our own TPs in consultation with RR engineers - but that's my understanding of why they have their own small, very specialist, flight test team.
G
(a) Competent Test Pilots, and
(b) Fully conversant with all of RR's products and specific engine testing requirements.
So that the company can provide direct, competent, input into aircraft manufacturer's test programmes, ensuring that RR gets the testing it requires done, and the data it needs back.
Similarly, if an engine problem is found in-service, surely the most effective way that RR can gather the information it requires to solve that is to send it's own competent TP(s) to fly with the operator (or at the very least, discuss in depth what's going on).
Please take this post in the light that I've never worked for RR, and on the odd occasions I've tested RR products it was as an Engineer and we used our own TPs in consultation with RR engineers - but that's my understanding of why they have their own small, very specialist, flight test team.
G
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Rolls-Royce Test Pilots
Genghis,
As someone who did work for R-R, specifically the Flight Test Centre, for many years, you are almost 100% correct in your thinking. However, there was another aspect (up until 1994) with the in-house testing of development engines/systems in aircraft, usually supplied by MoD(PE), suitable for the task.
The original Flight Test Centre (FTC) at FZO was basically divided into two areas; Flight Test - consisting of TP's, FTE's and Instrumentation Specialists; Engineering - who not only maintained the aircraft but, in the majority of cases, converted them into appropriate FTB's for the task. This usually involved structural and system modifications, as well as the installation of (latterly) MARS & MODAS data recording systems.
During my involvment in the FTC (1973-1993) we had many aircraft pass through our hands but some of the more memorable were;
Vulcan FTB with (underslung) RB199
Harriers for FADEC development and for the up-rated Pegasus 11-61
Lynx helicopters for FADEC and Gem development
Sikorsky S70C for RTM322 development
In addition, we also were closely involved with the RB211/VC10 FTB and in later years with the USN Sikorsky SH60B/RTM322 evaluation programme.
Apart from those types mentioned above, we had Phantoms, Jet Provosts, MB326 & 339's, Westland-30, HS125's and numerous other, short-term, FTB aircraft pass through our doors, the primary purpose of which were to carry-out our own in-house development programmes. Sadly, this was stopped in early 1994 and, although R-R retain TP's and FTE's, since that time they only carry-out their role in conjunction with the airframer or customer.
As someone who did work for R-R, specifically the Flight Test Centre, for many years, you are almost 100% correct in your thinking. However, there was another aspect (up until 1994) with the in-house testing of development engines/systems in aircraft, usually supplied by MoD(PE), suitable for the task.
The original Flight Test Centre (FTC) at FZO was basically divided into two areas; Flight Test - consisting of TP's, FTE's and Instrumentation Specialists; Engineering - who not only maintained the aircraft but, in the majority of cases, converted them into appropriate FTB's for the task. This usually involved structural and system modifications, as well as the installation of (latterly) MARS & MODAS data recording systems.
During my involvment in the FTC (1973-1993) we had many aircraft pass through our hands but some of the more memorable were;
Vulcan FTB with (underslung) RB199
Harriers for FADEC development and for the up-rated Pegasus 11-61
Lynx helicopters for FADEC and Gem development
Sikorsky S70C for RTM322 development
In addition, we also were closely involved with the RB211/VC10 FTB and in later years with the USN Sikorsky SH60B/RTM322 evaluation programme.
Apart from those types mentioned above, we had Phantoms, Jet Provosts, MB326 & 339's, Westland-30, HS125's and numerous other, short-term, FTB aircraft pass through our doors, the primary purpose of which were to carry-out our own in-house development programmes. Sadly, this was stopped in early 1994 and, although R-R retain TP's and FTE's, since that time they only carry-out their role in conjunction with the airframer or customer.
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RR tp's
Yes, QFI's are seldom wrong. Being exceedingly old, i was Warton ctp 2 before Dereck. The ctp at RR at that time was a superb man name of Cliff Rogers. He owned the Vulcan test bed with the RB199 in which we observed our first 199 surges,(but by no means the last), and he owned a Spitfire which i was exceedingly grateful to be allowed to drive. It was a Mk 14 and for me completed a boyhood dream.
In 1969 (i think), Cliff had the first of the British F4K's and needed to acrue some engine hours for the company before it went into service with the Navy. Things were quiet at Warton and i somehow managed to get my name on the list. More heaven! One of Cliff's pilots at that time was another ex-Navy man, Alan Deacon, sadly killed in a Tucano when later working for Shorts out of Belfast, doing flutter with stores. Alan gave me my first ride on joining Boscombe Down-- in a Buccaneer Mk 1, in Jan 1964.
The RR tp's were a good bunch.
In 1969 (i think), Cliff had the first of the British F4K's and needed to acrue some engine hours for the company before it went into service with the Navy. Things were quiet at Warton and i somehow managed to get my name on the list. More heaven! One of Cliff's pilots at that time was another ex-Navy man, Alan Deacon, sadly killed in a Tucano when later working for Shorts out of Belfast, doing flutter with stores. Alan gave me my first ride on joining Boscombe Down-- in a Buccaneer Mk 1, in Jan 1964.
The RR tp's were a good bunch.
Originally Posted by A2QFI
I am not Sherlock Holmes but I think he is Dave Eagles not D Reeh!
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RR Flight Tests
Has there been a flying test bed for the new giant engine for the A380 or does it have to be the first A300.?
Is anyone able to post the specifications for either or both test bed and installed?
Presume control is FADEC and idiot proofed.
Saw on TV RR doing a corn cob destruct by an explosive severence of a fan blade at max RPM.
Test was just to see that the casing could contain the corn and it did.
Incredible destruction of a new engine. Must be an easier less expensive method.
Has there been a flying test bed for the new giant engine for the A380 or does it have to be the first A300.?
Is anyone able to post the specifications for either or both test bed and installed?
Presume control is FADEC and idiot proofed.
Saw on TV RR doing a corn cob destruct by an explosive severence of a fan blade at max RPM.
Test was just to see that the casing could contain the corn and it did.
Incredible destruction of a new engine. Must be an easier less expensive method.
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Originally Posted by Milt
RR Flight Tests
Has there been a flying test bed for the new giant engine for the A380 or does it have to be the first A300.?
Has there been a flying test bed for the new giant engine for the A380 or does it have to be the first A300.?
...
Saw on TV RR doing a corn cob destruct by an explosive severence of a fan blade at max RPM.
Test was just to see that the casing could contain the corn and it did.
Incredible destruction of a new engine. Must be an easier less expensive method.
Saw on TV RR doing a corn cob destruct by an explosive severence of a fan blade at max RPM.
Test was just to see that the casing could contain the corn and it did.
Incredible destruction of a new engine. Must be an easier less expensive method.
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Originally Posted by Milt
RR Flight Tests
Has there been a flying test bed for the new giant engine for the A380 or does it have to be the first A300.?
Has there been a flying test bed for the new giant engine for the A380 or does it have to be the first A300.?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0757884/L/
They have purchased a 747 (ex CX and others) for use as a flying test bed for the Trent 1000 (787).
Story: http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/showPR.jsp?PR_ID=40219
Pic:http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/ima...ages/ftb01.jpg
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Originally Posted by easyPilot
Don't RR have a 747 classic as a flying testbed?
GE have a 747 Classic and put the test unit at #2.
Actually I'll have to scour Airliners.net but I have a suspicion that it might actually be PW-powered...
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GE 747-100 w/ GE90-115B in #2 position:
3 JT9D's in the other positions.
Take a look at this photo collection of several testbed aircraft
3 JT9D's in the other positions.
Take a look at this photo collection of several testbed aircraft
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RR TPs
Former CTP of AVROE, Tony Blackman, has recently published a book called Flight Testing To Win which describes his display flying at Farnborough and many aspects of Vulcan developmental flight testing. The following extract referrs to a Rolls Royce flight which went tragically wrong.
I wish I had known about the nose ribs when I was pushing Vulcans to the limit out of Boscombe Down.
"Flying at Farnborough for the first time had been a marvellous experience for me . However, aerobatics in the Vulcan soon came to an end. We had delivered the very first Vulcan prototype, XV770, to Rolls Royce fitted with the latest Conway engines which were to go in the Victor Mk 2. My great friend from the RAF in Germany, Keith Sturt, was doing most of the flying. One day Keith was flying the aircraft at the Syerston air display and the aircraft broke up and crashed during a straight run past the crowd. There was an amateur movie sequence of the break-up and the experts said that Keith had been exceeding the maximum permitted speed. I was not so sure. We knew that the Rolls Royce crews had been rolling and half looping the aircraft. Keith was not a reckless pilot. What Rolls Royce maintenance engineers did not know was that the engineers at Woodford always used to inspect the Vulcan nose ribs when we were doing aerobatics even though this inspection was not a regular one described and listed in the maintenance manual. The space was very small and Woodford had a special man who could do the job. Damage was often found to the nose ribs which had to be repaired, especially if the pilot had pulled a little too much g. I don't believe that the Rolls Royce engineers had been routinely checking the nose ribs and it is my belief that the aircraft was probably damaged before Keith took-off that day."
Former CTP of AVROE, Tony Blackman, has recently published a book called Flight Testing To Win which describes his display flying at Farnborough and many aspects of Vulcan developmental flight testing. The following extract referrs to a Rolls Royce flight which went tragically wrong.
I wish I had known about the nose ribs when I was pushing Vulcans to the limit out of Boscombe Down.
"Flying at Farnborough for the first time had been a marvellous experience for me . However, aerobatics in the Vulcan soon came to an end. We had delivered the very first Vulcan prototype, XV770, to Rolls Royce fitted with the latest Conway engines which were to go in the Victor Mk 2. My great friend from the RAF in Germany, Keith Sturt, was doing most of the flying. One day Keith was flying the aircraft at the Syerston air display and the aircraft broke up and crashed during a straight run past the crowd. There was an amateur movie sequence of the break-up and the experts said that Keith had been exceeding the maximum permitted speed. I was not so sure. We knew that the Rolls Royce crews had been rolling and half looping the aircraft. Keith was not a reckless pilot. What Rolls Royce maintenance engineers did not know was that the engineers at Woodford always used to inspect the Vulcan nose ribs when we were doing aerobatics even though this inspection was not a regular one described and listed in the maintenance manual. The space was very small and Woodford had a special man who could do the job. Damage was often found to the nose ribs which had to be repaired, especially if the pilot had pulled a little too much g. I don't believe that the Rolls Royce engineers had been routinely checking the nose ribs and it is my belief that the aircraft was probably damaged before Keith took-off that day."
