Mysterious case of the "missing" fuel!
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The fuel temprature must be becoming a critical issue.
Jet A-1 freeze point is -50c
I dont have my charts in front of me now but if I remember correctly the OAT at 35,000 is -56c.
With the amount of time he has spent at above 40,000 feet this must be a concern.
I am sure his engine has some sort of fuel heat ability.
But may affect his quantity indicating system.
Also fuel used indicators have a margin of error.
The error is slight but after a flight of this endurance may become a consideration.
Maybe someone that knows more about this aircraft and its limitations can comment further.
Jet A-1 freeze point is -50c
I dont have my charts in front of me now but if I remember correctly the OAT at 35,000 is -56c.
With the amount of time he has spent at above 40,000 feet this must be a concern.
I am sure his engine has some sort of fuel heat ability.
But may affect his quantity indicating system.
Also fuel used indicators have a margin of error.
The error is slight but after a flight of this endurance may become a consideration.
Maybe someone that knows more about this aircraft and its limitations can comment further.
Last edited by Earl; 2nd Mar 2005 at 19:03.
Could be a combination of things - there might have been excessive venting after take-off initially?. I know that some polar flights into Hong Kong have had a fuel freezing problem over the past few months
anyhow .... good luck, Steve, may the wind gods be with you
anyhow .... good luck, Steve, may the wind gods be with you
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I did read somewhere that this plane had never been completely filled to the brim with fuel before this actual record-breaking attempt.
If this is true, then this prior lack of testing of fuel tank integrity seems folly indeed. ... as is the apparent lack of calibration and matching of fuel burn rates and tank depletion rates.
If this is true, then this prior lack of testing of fuel tank integrity seems folly indeed. ... as is the apparent lack of calibration and matching of fuel burn rates and tank depletion rates.
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Wonderful....the luxuary of pontificating on all these possibilites while sitting comfortably at our lap-tops after a glass or 2 of wine....
On the other hand we could be mulling them over while alone at 45000 + ft over the ocean, many thousands of miles from home, fatigued beyond description and just wishing it was all over.....
On the other hand we could be mulling them over while alone at 45000 + ft over the ocean, many thousands of miles from home, fatigued beyond description and just wishing it was all over.....
Steve will attempt to cross the Pacific Ocean
After 42 hours of flight, following the loss of 2,600 lbs of fuel in the early stages of the flight, Steve Fossett has decided to cross the Pacific Ocean at least as far a Hawaii.
Despite the earlier loss of fuel that means Steve may possibly not make it back to Salina, he will aim to get as far a Hawaii where he will re-assess the situation. Steve and Mission Control are taking one step at a time.
Steve is nearly in daylight and will to continue have 100 knot tailwinds assisting his flight until Hawaii. After this point, however, the winds are expected to be only around 40 knots, which could cause problems as Steve needs at least 58 knots to make his fuel last all the way in.
Despite the earlier loss of fuel that means Steve may possibly not make it back to Salina, he will aim to get as far a Hawaii where he will re-assess the situation. Steve and Mission Control are taking one step at a time.
Steve is nearly in daylight and will to continue have 100 knot tailwinds assisting his flight until Hawaii. After this point, however, the winds are expected to be only around 40 knots, which could cause problems as Steve needs at least 58 knots to make his fuel last all the way in.
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Maybe Steve is thinking now that he should have had Air to Air Refuelling Mod fitted as this would have done 2 things
A: Solved the problem of a fuel Leak leaving him slightly short of Fuel
B:Solved the problem that one of the earlier Posters had earlier of JET A1 freezing due to cold soak as he could uplift fuel at any time during the trip
A: Solved the problem of a fuel Leak leaving him slightly short of Fuel
B:Solved the problem that one of the earlier Posters had earlier of JET A1 freezing due to cold soak as he could uplift fuel at any time during the trip
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Virgin Atlantic GlobalFlyer
Ironic it is that this very modern & sophisticated aircraft is suffering from powered aviation's "second oldest problem", the loss or uncertain availability of mission-critical fuel.
Fuel shortage, when timely discovered, is an aerial devil one can ponder at some length, usually without hope of cure. Forty some years after the fact, I can still see exactly in memory the bent-over wire standing proud from the cowl just forward of the windscreen in a J3 Piper Cub, inexorably sinking out of view as the the cork floating it in the single fuel tank reached toward the bottom. In a plane with no electrics, no radios, and very basic instruments, the message was loud and unmistakeable, although I can remember once or twice wondering, with the boundless optimism of youth, if the cork might be malfunctioning.
The Scaled Composites folks are very serious about their instrumentation and their testing, so, in addition to the standard measures, they should be prepared and able to do a simple acceleration test procedure to "weigh" their aircraft at any point in flight and thus determine the actual current fuel on-board. From this we may infer that the unexplained loss is known to not be continuing at a high rate.
Based on info cited above, the actual aircraft + fuel weight at the 1400 UTC point would be 3350+5500=8850, and the planned/expected weight would be 8850+2600=11450 (29 percent heavier).
Given that these numbers are quite far apart, the keyword is probably "Aloha".
Ironic it is that this very modern & sophisticated aircraft is suffering from powered aviation's "second oldest problem", the loss or uncertain availability of mission-critical fuel.
Fuel shortage, when timely discovered, is an aerial devil one can ponder at some length, usually without hope of cure. Forty some years after the fact, I can still see exactly in memory the bent-over wire standing proud from the cowl just forward of the windscreen in a J3 Piper Cub, inexorably sinking out of view as the the cork floating it in the single fuel tank reached toward the bottom. In a plane with no electrics, no radios, and very basic instruments, the message was loud and unmistakeable, although I can remember once or twice wondering, with the boundless optimism of youth, if the cork might be malfunctioning.
The Scaled Composites folks are very serious about their instrumentation and their testing, so, in addition to the standard measures, they should be prepared and able to do a simple acceleration test procedure to "weigh" their aircraft at any point in flight and thus determine the actual current fuel on-board. From this we may infer that the unexplained loss is known to not be continuing at a high rate.
Based on info cited above, the actual aircraft + fuel weight at the 1400 UTC point would be 3350+5500=8850, and the planned/expected weight would be 8850+2600=11450 (29 percent heavier).
Given that these numbers are quite far apart, the keyword is probably "Aloha".
First of the very best of luck to Steve Fosset and I really hope he makes it all the way round.
I can't help noticing that on all these record attempts they always seem to come up with some "crisis" half way round (happened with Ellen MacArthurs round globe voyage) and that this tends yo keep it higher profile in the media - as indeed it should be!!
I can't help noticing that on all these record attempts they always seem to come up with some "crisis" half way round (happened with Ellen MacArthurs round globe voyage) and that this tends yo keep it higher profile in the media - as indeed it should be!!
Nexialist
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There is no issue from freezing of fuel, according to the website they are using low freezing temp fuel, presumably the stuff available in Russia which I read about on here a good while ago.
From the website
From the website
The fuel itself will be a special fuel that has a much lower freezing point that regular aviation fuel
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I can see him now on AirNav Flight Tracker under the callsign of Virgin 101 (unless this is his chase plane) as he cuts southeast across the flow of airliners from the mainland north of Hawaii. Will watch to see if he makes a turn back to HNL, his ground speed has slowed to about 280 knots.
It's an odd course (114 degrees true) for Kansas from what I can see...
_______________________________
Well, looks like he's making a turn, but it's not back to HNL:
Mission Status: Steve says "Let's go for it!"
At 21:30CST (03:30UCT) Steve Fossett relayed by satellite phone to Virgin Atlantic GlobalFlyer Mission Control Director Kevin Stass "let's go for it". Strong tailwinds across the Pacific from the coast of Japan carried
Steve between 100knots -130knots from the coast of Japan to Hawaii, bringing the round-the-world non-stop circumnavigation world record back within his grasp.
Steve Fossett, commented: "I hit the jetstream very well which has put us in a better fuel position. I have every hope of making it to Salina tomorrow."
It's an odd course (114 degrees true) for Kansas from what I can see...
_______________________________
Well, looks like he's making a turn, but it's not back to HNL:
Mission Status: Steve says "Let's go for it!"
At 21:30CST (03:30UCT) Steve Fossett relayed by satellite phone to Virgin Atlantic GlobalFlyer Mission Control Director Kevin Stass "let's go for it". Strong tailwinds across the Pacific from the coast of Japan carried
Steve between 100knots -130knots from the coast of Japan to Hawaii, bringing the round-the-world non-stop circumnavigation world record back within his grasp.
Steve Fossett, commented: "I hit the jetstream very well which has put us in a better fuel position. I have every hope of making it to Salina tomorrow."
Last edited by Airbubba; 3rd Mar 2005 at 04:23.
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PR/Media Stunt for Sure.....
It was repeatedly claimed in the media that Richard Branson was the "standby pilot" for this attempt and would fly the aircraft if Fossett was unable to. Of course, he would need a pilot's licence, night rating and instrument rating but not one of my calls, emails or letters about Mr B's qualifications have been acknowledged or replied to. Wonder why? MOre drama for the press methinks... just like gas-tanks "falling" from their balloon. Great technology but just too much bull5hit for many folks. bm
Perhaps. But hardly important right now with the Virgin Atlantic Global Flyer running perilously close to min fuel required to complete the attempt.
Good for Steve Fossett and Sir Richard Branson for showing that there are at least some true aviation folk left in the sterile world of 2005!
Good for Steve Fossett and Sir Richard Branson for showing that there are at least some true aviation folk left in the sterile world of 2005!
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It sounds like a lot of jealous back-biting going on here.
Hey, the guy is rich, rich, rich, through his own efforts. He had this thing built, he's flying it, albeit with a bit of sponsorship from another annoyingly successful extrovert, and he can probably figure out how to cope with this fuel problem.
If there is a bid for publicity in all of this I bet it would not be coming from Mr Fossett but from someone on the ground. How many of us would trade places with him and how fast? Me for one! It sounds like a wonderful adventure, even if he ends up taking a bit of a swim rather than landing in Kansas.
Come to that, I have been in Kansas; I would rather be neck-deep in the Pacific, all else being equal. That is the place of which it was said, the problem is that there is no there, there.
Hey, the guy is rich, rich, rich, through his own efforts. He had this thing built, he's flying it, albeit with a bit of sponsorship from another annoyingly successful extrovert, and he can probably figure out how to cope with this fuel problem.
If there is a bid for publicity in all of this I bet it would not be coming from Mr Fossett but from someone on the ground. How many of us would trade places with him and how fast? Me for one! It sounds like a wonderful adventure, even if he ends up taking a bit of a swim rather than landing in Kansas.
Come to that, I have been in Kansas; I would rather be neck-deep in the Pacific, all else being equal. That is the place of which it was said, the problem is that there is no there, there.
I read on their site that
At 04:00UTC this evening, Steve had 3,200 pounds of fuel remaining and fuel consumption has dropped to around 160 pounds per hour.
Does this not mean he has fuel until 00:00UTC? Would this not be sufficent to reach New York if he so wished?
At 04:00UTC this evening, Steve had 3,200 pounds of fuel remaining and fuel consumption has dropped to around 160 pounds per hour.
At 04:00UTC this evening, Steve had 3,200 pounds of fuel remaining and fuel consumption has dropped to around 160 pounds per hour.
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Personally Im sure the Fuel Crisis was to boost Press attention....but never the less, its an outstanding feat; not just of technology but of human endurance (and fatigue management).
Fosset has been airborne for 63hrs as I type this. Only a few hrs to go....and he'll land with 6+hrs fuel in tanks; amazing really.
According to the website, GlobalFlyer, at the light weights its at now, will not descend with the engine at idle! Apparently you have to lower the gear to descend......so without jinxing the man, it seems he could indeed glide to his heros welcome.
Bon chance, enjoy your porcelin toilet and a horizontal sleep.
Fosset has been airborne for 63hrs as I type this. Only a few hrs to go....and he'll land with 6+hrs fuel in tanks; amazing really.
According to the website, GlobalFlyer, at the light weights its at now, will not descend with the engine at idle! Apparently you have to lower the gear to descend......so without jinxing the man, it seems he could indeed glide to his heros welcome.
Bon chance, enjoy your porcelin toilet and a horizontal sleep.