Mr.Flaps --- The negative culture is not in all the management at S/Air, there are some damn good managers there, but im afraid they are in the minority,

Another issue that always raises its head, whatever profits are made at any station it is then poured into the perverbial corporate pot and then shared out to non-performing stations and under achievers, i really think that is a bad way of doing buisness, this makes all layers of the workforce at the profitable station wonder where all their hard work has gone and why investment in the profitable station never happens

Servisair Stn
 

Hounddog 1:ugh:
What happens behind closed doors; Watching tv,playing cards.reading the paper,on the the internet and waiting for the the early shoot why ramp struggle due to staff shortages because all their work comes in at the same time and Cargo with their feet up, what a way to run a business.:=
I suspect from reading your post you work at Cargo looking after your own little empire and that is the problem with Servisair.

Servisair Stn
 

Mr Flaps
I agree with a lot you say about landing fees etc,but you have to look at other ways of cutting costs in order to complete in this cut throat business Servisair have failed to do this, all to busy looking after their own little empires and hoping if we sack a few poles and make a few people redundant everything will be alright and carry on the same old way.
Can't sack any Duty Managers who would make the Tea:=

OK, Servisair... here's a little perspective.
 

Servisair are one of (if not) the biggest handling agents on the planet. We/I may not like this... but that's the way it is. They're obviously doing something right.

I work closely with alot of people that work at one of servisair's (amittedly fairly small) stations. They moan about the money, the conditions etc. But how many of them do you actually see leave? not many. Its a bit of money coming in and people need that no matter what happens.

I'm not one of Circusair's big fans at all (in fact i work for the competition at the airport i work at) but they have the international presence and airlines know they can strike a good deal with them. The less handling fees an airline can pay is generally for the better... Servisair can offer this because they are so big.

that's the way it goes chaps...

Servisair Stn
 

Jerboy
Biggest is not always the best.
Servisair are the highest payers on the Ramp, and have a loyal ,flexible ,skilled and hard working workforce.
But i think you are missing the point they are being let down by management and high overheads which lead to a loss of contracts and fail to secure new contracts.
If what you say is right they should have got the AA contract, i heard they came third in the pecking order.
Landing fees make no difference when an Airline stays at the Airport only when they move.
As i said in a previous post they get rid of a few poles and make a few redundant on the Ramp and carry on the same old way.
Time to get rid of some of the dead wood management.

tgwu stn,

What a one sided view of the world you have. It's all the 'managements' fault and the 'good, hard working workers are never to blame'.

There have been many posts about the 'ups and downs' of Servisair and ground handling in general.

A few facts:

Servisair is one of the 3 largest independent (of airline or state ownership)ground handing in thbe world. Which is the largest depends on what you measure. The other 2: Menzies and Swissport.

Servisair have made a lot of senior Head Office (EVP, SVP, VP and Director level) people redundant and have not recruited at their HQ to reduce overheads. In the last week more names have been added to the 'at risk' list and will be gone before the year end. I think you will find that the MAN HQ have taken the highest toll in this exercise followed by the US HQ, which was moved from NYC to Dallas (I think).

Cargo and Ground Handling in Europe are run by the same guy now. Another guy has responsibility for Americas.

Cargo and ground handling are very different markets - the ground handling of the cargo buisness is a very small revenue earner in the business as a whole.

I would agree that Servisair's overheads have got too high, the multi-level management structure has left the airport manager too far removed from the CEO. Some of that has been taken out already, more is in the pipeline.

The strategy of 'supporting the weak' is not new, it was a culture of many years ago and protects individual airports from the cyclical ways of the industry. In a big organisation it is not unusual; the key is identifying the dead wood and cutting it out - not something that Servisair have been very good at. I am old enough to remember years and years when STN did not make any money; it relied on either LHR or LGW being fog bound for a few days every year to pick up huge diversion work to pay the bills; sometimes it managed it, many times it did not.

When a business loses as much as Servisair did in 05 and again in 06 there has to be change; holding a hard line with proicing is one aspect of this, there is no point in 'buying' business as there is neither the money to staff it or equip it. look what the FR contract did for Servisair at STN!

Servisair Stn
 

groundhand:D
I agree with a lot of the points you made,but there needs to be a clear out of all the deadwood management at Stansted too many looking out for themselves and not the business.
The one sided view i have is good hard working employees facing the being made redundant why the management remains the same.
If there any job losses at Servisair( and i hope there are not):(lets see how many are management.

Menzies And Airberlin
 

May I Butt In With This.i Have Heard Rumours Of Another Possible Loss For Servisair..menzies Looking At Airberlin.

Any News Of This!!!!

Nice try Grizzler:=

Menzies And Airberlin
 

Go Grizzler!!!! now that's what I call a REAL rumour lol

Whilst we're talking rumours......what about Air India and yet another american company coming to Stansted( americans alledgedly northwest).
If true then maybe servisair were not too upset to lose Maxjet.Maybe the're just freeing up some manpower??????hmmmmmmm the wonders of aviation

I am sure Servisair would look at Ryanair though hopefully only through a telescope from a 5 mile distance!

Did you come up with that one on one of your extended tea breaks? I very much doubt you can see too clearly from your position in front on the TV :rolleyes:

Servisair Stn
 

Subject 117
I see the deadwood management every day, while working on the Ramp earning the company money turning around aircraft then we have well earned cup of tea.
All i see management do is read paper, play games on the computer,drink tea,trips to the smoking hut,drive around to see if the ramp team has put the cones out and put out a few memo's that a school leaver could do.:=
These over paid tea boys (over 23k a year)has to be paid for and thats while Servisair will continue lose contracts and fail to get new ones the overhead costs make them unable to compete with the other handling agents.
It will be interesting to see how the pay talks go this year:(

TGWU,

Questions.

1. How many aircraft do you turn round a day
2. How many times do you finish early?
3. Did you earn over 23k last year?

Does management allow

1. staff to drink tea?
2. staff to read newspapers?
3. staff to visit the smoking hut?

I would also presume management have to drive around ensuring staff cone aircraft because.

1. staff need reminding to do their job.
2. Airline requirement.

I wonder who spider monkey works for hhmmmmmmm.......
I wonder if he holds a managerial position hhmmmmmmmmm...........

so you finally took the plunge and signed up,good boy!!!!!!!

Servisair Stn
 

Spider Monkey
I turnaround enough aircraft a day for the pay i receive and if required will do more turnarounds in my shift.
I get the early shoot if all the work is done not before.
What i earn is my business but i am worth it.
I only read the newspapers,drink tea, in my down time or meal break.
I don't smoke but those that do should only do so in rest periods or down time not when they are on duty and using a company car to drive to the smoking hut which should be used for work only.
If management drove around and helped when staff are up against it they would be more respected.
Management need reminding of their job if they have one.
:=If you want the perks of down time and early shoots come and work on the Ramp you can't have it always you can also have the other perks of freezing cold ,p:mad:g down with rain,staff shortages,heavy hard work.:eek:

tgwu stn
Have you ever been in a managerial position?
If so what are you doing working on the Ramp, were you yourself part of a deadwood management team.
TnB

TGWU STN

IF YOU DONT LIKE IT.......CLOCK OUT AND F:mad:K OFF HOME

Cup of tea Son?:ok:

Servisair Stn
 

Towteambase
What a really contructive comment,if thats all you can come back with my views must be correct.:D

Tugnbar
I don't need to have been a Manager to know what goes on i see it every day with my own eyes.
Ground handling is all about teamwork and the management team at Servisair are letting the team down.

That's rich coming from someone who has constantly insulted the management team.

spider monkey
 

I THINK SPIDER MONKEY IS MANAGEMENT.AS THATS THE SORT OF THINGS THEY WILL COME OUT WITH. THREE MEN TRYING TO TURN ROUND 2 AIRCRAFT,WHEN A HELPFULL CHAPPY IN A CAR COMES ROUND TO SAY,,,, YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN TO PUT CONES OUT. IF YOU CANT SEE A FORTY FOOT HIGH PLANE ,WHAT CHANCE DOES A POOR TWO FOOT CONE HAVE.

LETS HAVE A ...SAVE A CONE DAY.:ok:

Ah Grizzler,
There is the basic problem....

How many times do ramp teams have to be told of the basic process? If the customer wants you to walk around the aircraft 5 times and bow to the East; and you have been told that by your management (and probabaly received traing - and signed as accepting that training) then why do you think it is acceptable not to do so?

You might like to think that the big metal bus parked on the ramp is obvious; IATA estimate (2005) that ground damage cost avaition over $4bn a year - yes $4 billion! That is a lot of revenue that the airlines can not pay to ground handling companies or other service providers because some people think they know better than the process.

So if the customenr wants cones, put the cones out and then everyone will be happy.

Unfortunately, a lot of ramp guys and gals think that they know better, sadly they are wrong.

Follow the process, that's all you are being asked to do.
Is it so difficult?

GH

rumours floating around that airberlin are about to pull more flights from Stn.When will it end and can the last person to leave the servisair restroom please switch the lights out!!!!!!!

Groundhand...not Acceptable
 

YES GROUNDHAND.... I CAN SEE THAT IT IS UNACCEPTABLE NOT TO PUT CONES OUT AS WE HAVE BEEN(so called)TRAINED TO DO .....BUT I BET WHEN THE HANDLING AGENT TAKES ON AN AIRLINE ,THE MANAGEMENT SAY HOW MANY MEN THEY WILL GET TO HANDLE THERE PLANE AND THE TIME IT WILL TAKE TO TURN ROUND . IT CANT ALWAYS BE DONE. THIS ALSO IS UNACCEPTABLE. THEN WHAT.

ANOTHER SCURGE FOR IT GOING OUT LATE.:{ YOU CANT WIN.

AND GROUNDHAND YOU SOUND LIKE MANAGEMENT AS WELL...TO LONG AWAY FROM THE REAL WORLD....WE WORK WEEKENDS. IT DOSENT STOP ON FRIDAY AT FIVE PM.

EOS
 

Has anyone other than me heard any talk of EOS being handled by Harrods on the Posh side of Stansted??

Sorry to cut in and add more fluff to this post but I have heard talk of this recently and I'm in a good position to hear such things..

Cheers,

Punch:ouch:

Servisair stn ground handling.
 

groundhand and spidermonkey.:ugh:
Whats wrong with management putting out the the cones if the Ramp guys and girls are up against it,help out not p:mad:s people off its called teamwork and good man management you will get more repect.
Grizzler:D
Your post is spot on we can't all be wrong.

I have heard the same rumours about Airberlin and Eos i hope not a lot of good people at Servisair.:sad:

How doI get in?
 

I'm an ex-pilot, 11 years in the pharmaceutical industry and now redundant. I want to get into Ops/handling. Preferably Ops. Do I have any chance? How do I go about it?

Grizz,

I've done my time on 24/7 shift and my years in managemt - am in neither now so I've no axe to grind. Certainly the hours I did in management far exceeded the hours when on shift and yes, these did include nights, weekends and some long, long days.

Totally agree that good managers should be able, willing and be to seen to help out at times of need - they should however, focus on getting the right resources to be available at the right time. Good 2-way communication can solve a lot of problems but they have to earn the right to have this - it is not a God given. Does not sound as if yours have done this.

You are wrong in that, the vast majority of, airlines do not specify the numbers for a ramp team and nor should they as the work flexes - especially if you are handling cargo carrying aircraft - and as such, the make-up of the team should be flexible.

I have a lot of respect and sympathy for ramp teams - especially at this time of year; it can be a thankless grind that no-one ever sees the positives, you receive very few thanks and get the vocals when things go wrong. But thereis no excuse for not taking safety before OTP - ever.

Lastly, on the cones and process.
How many of the guys and gals ever thing of the number of turnrounds they will have to complete to pay for the damage caused when someone smacks a plane? The lack of cones, the short cut that has worked so many times before, that little bit of speed that gets you there 3 seconds earlier etc.
And no, insurance does not 'cover' it; a lot is uninsured (just like the excess on your car polict - except bigger) and if it is insured thay come and bite you in the b*m with their premiums - just like if you have a few prangs in your car.

You sound incredibly frustrated; put a positive spin on this and be rational when you talk to your managers - sensible questions asked calmly and without fury and emotion are much harder to avoid.

keep the faith!
GH

Can't happen, Harrods can only do private flights and one off charters

Keep the faith
 

He who has no faith!!!!!!!!!!!......talk to the management calmly is fine only to find out that all they say is-DON't KNOW!!!!!!!.May be YOU should think about what you say!!!!!

It's not just management!!!!
 

If you open your eyes to the world(restroom) you will find that alot of the workforce are only to worried about getting out of that place with their runners on-tow.Not all the workforce act like TEAMWORK!

Groundhand, i agree with what you say you made some good points:D.
People tend to forget managers are there to manage not to load a/c when the s:mad:t hits the fan how will they know whats going on if they've been loading and no i'm not a manager, managers need to find an even balance and know when to help and when to stand back.

Grizler I've also heard the rumour about Menzies into STN a while back but I'd heard it was for EasyJet as they where not happy with swissport, but either way i cant see it happening as the airport is'nt big enough for another handling agent so i dont think the baa would allow it.

Diamond,

You seem to have some thought that I have access to the crew room. I do not.
I have not been to STN for nearly a year, and the last time was purely as a passenger en route to the US.
I can assure that I do not work at STN, nor for any handling company. My comments were made from the time I did work in the handling business.

Maybe it's because I'm an old f8rt but I do think the business has over complicated what is basically a very simple process. Just my view.

Oh, and on the Menzies front.
I would not bet against them appearing in STN when Swissport's contract is up; if not before. The BAA will allow another handler, more money for them. Why - look around the country and at the EZY/Menzies tie-up. They are picking off the airports one by one.
Menzies, within a year or two, will become the biggest handling company in the World - and I don't work for them either!

Fair play
 

Fair comment.As you described yourself as an old f**t then how long ago was it since you worked on the ramp,things change,people change but you cannot break the change cord of management.Yes they are meant to play a big part in the infrastructure of a company but tell me this,if they play a big part why is it that so many workers amongst servisair are so,to put it bluntly,cheesed off. I think on another note maybe there should be some change within the managerial section other wise it could be "adios" servisair from STN,who knows maybe Menzies will overtake all!!!!

Well looks like it will be you who switches off the lights Sat 1 since you mentioned it lol

Got A Minute......
 

In the words of one of servisairs finest........

Got a minute............

This job of ours is a good job,at the end of the day we wouldnt be there if it werent.
yes, the situation ( got a situation son ) is bad at the moment, with csa,sky,ab hub pulling out and w**kjet going for a cheaper option, but this is due to baa and money at the end of the day,we cant blame white shirts for that.

We ramp workers work damn hard and we dont recieve any thanks for our hard work,there is little to none-communication between white shirts and us,gross miss conduct and staff morale is very poor.
A company shouldnt be like this.

we all need to work and communicate together,no doubt there is work in the pipe line, we now need to turn things around..

this is a great company and job, going wrong, and white shirts cant be blamed for all of it.
we wil get no where slagging off on this.
I am the voice of reason....
lets turn things around......

CB.

on another topic - pay talks whats your views..........

Well looks like it will be you who switches off the lights Sat 1 since you mentioned
 

Well looks like it will be you who switches off the lights Sat 1 since you mentioned it lol


just so long as there is a call out and two hours on top!!!!!!:O