Self Positioning at behest of company by Hire Car
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 297
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From: England
Self Positioning at behest of company by Hire Car
UK AOC Holders
Is it common practise for some operators to expect Flight Crew (and not Cabin Crew) to Hire a car, and self-position themselves at the behest of the company prior to a FDP ?
Whilst it saves the company the cost of a round trip taxi fare, this derogatory slip towards the DIY ethos is also an insurance issue as well surely ? And I am not talking of an hours single journey either.
How many UK companies do you know employ this sly tactic ?
Cheers
TG
Is it common practise for some operators to expect Flight Crew (and not Cabin Crew) to Hire a car, and self-position themselves at the behest of the company prior to a FDP ?
Whilst it saves the company the cost of a round trip taxi fare, this derogatory slip towards the DIY ethos is also an insurance issue as well surely ? And I am not talking of an hours single journey either.
How many UK companies do you know employ this sly tactic ?
Cheers
TG
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 3
From: UK
TG, given the current economic climate for airlines I'd have thought you would be pleased that your company was being thrifty and that you had a chance to contribute towards its survival.
Airline history is littered with companies that have frittered away money pandering to the expensive requirements of its flight deck...............................and then they have gone bust.
Airline history is littered with companies that have frittered away money pandering to the expensive requirements of its flight deck...............................and then they have gone bust.
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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Joined: Nov 1999
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From: West Sussex, UK
Under CAP371 definitions:
"POSITIONING" is defined as:
The practice of transferring crews from place to place as passengers in surface or air transport at the behest of an operator.
How can you drive a hire car and be a passenger ??
"POSITIONING" is defined as:
The practice of transferring crews from place to place as passengers in surface or air transport at the behest of an operator.
How can you drive a hire car and be a passenger ??
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 198
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From: Anywhere but home
Tartan,
Yes, the FTL scheme does account for positioning, at least it does here!! Rest commences on completion of the positioning activity.
As for CAP 371, my Ops controller tell me that this can be superceded by your company's Ops Manual, as does here. We often have crews position home by hire car. However, PRIOR to a flight, our Ops manual stipulates a maximum self position time of 1hrs 30mins is allowable, after which the crew must all be passengers.
Hope this helps
Andy
Yes, the FTL scheme does account for positioning, at least it does here!! Rest commences on completion of the positioning activity.
As for CAP 371, my Ops controller tell me that this can be superceded by your company's Ops Manual, as does here. We often have crews position home by hire car. However, PRIOR to a flight, our Ops manual stipulates a maximum self position time of 1hrs 30mins is allowable, after which the crew must all be passengers.
Hope this helps
Andy
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 48
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From: ME
Previous company of mine used to postion crews by hire car to/from duty and ok in our FOM.
Crews used to love it. Test drive the latest models, not at the mercy of some taxi driver who had been awake for the previuos 12 hours, and in some cases single crew could drive straight home from a duty and return the car the following day.
Company would save a considerable amount of money as we could often use the same hire car for half a dozen journeys within a 24hr period.
Winners all round.
:
Crews used to love it. Test drive the latest models, not at the mercy of some taxi driver who had been awake for the previuos 12 hours, and in some cases single crew could drive straight home from a duty and return the car the following day.
Company would save a considerable amount of money as we could often use the same hire car for half a dozen journeys within a 24hr period.
Winners all round.
:
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: England
Taxi lark
Many thanks chaps.
Andy DR
Much obliged for this information.
The company I have under the spy glass wants Flight Deck crew alone to HC from an airport in the SE (yep ! South of the Watford gap) and asks, posn self to BHX - mind you it's after a "min rest".
The insurance aspects are a large concern, not least the CAA "clearance" to do it.
Thanks again.
TG
Andy DR
Much obliged for this information.
The company I have under the spy glass wants Flight Deck crew alone to HC from an airport in the SE (yep ! South of the Watford gap) and asks, posn self to BHX - mind you it's after a "min rest".
The insurance aspects are a large concern, not least the CAA "clearance" to do it.
Thanks again.
TG
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
Some years ago my FOD thought it would be a great idea for crews to drive a hire car back to base (6 hours) after a 5 sector night.
I contacted the company's insurers and asked if we would still be covered if we had an accident in such circumstances. All insurance cover was stopped immediately until this practice was stopped. It didn't take long!
I contacted the company's insurers and asked if we would still be covered if we had an accident in such circumstances. All insurance cover was stopped immediately until this practice was stopped. It didn't take long!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: England
Taxi Lark
JW 411
Many thanks for that enlightening information.
That could swing the balance between the reasonable roster and the unreasonable one, as far as "rest" and certainly insurance is concerned.
Keep safe
TG
Many thanks for that enlightening information.
That could swing the balance between the reasonable roster and the unreasonable one, as far as "rest" and certainly insurance is concerned.
Keep safe
TG
