Contactable - Duty?
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Joined: Nov 2018
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From: Luton
Contactable - Duty?
Looking for guidance ref operators counting Contactable period as duty? Clearly any rostered contactable day means that the day cannot be classed as OFF, but does the contracted period of contactability count towards cumulative duty?
My thoughts on the matter are that counting contactable as duty harps back to the days pre-mobile comms and email where the staff member might be required to be at a certain location (ie home by the land-line phone) in order to satisfy the contactable requirement. Relevant then, due to a clear impact on the crew member's liberties on the day; but with everyone carrying mobile devices (likely to be company-issued), surely this is now defunct? A contactable day meaning that you just have to have your phone on during a set time period; free to do as you please on the day, but still not a legal day OFF and no addition to cumulative duty. Thoughts (or regulations!) appreciated.
Looking at this from an ad hoc operator perspective rather than a scheduled operator.
Thanks in advance for any feedback
My thoughts on the matter are that counting contactable as duty harps back to the days pre-mobile comms and email where the staff member might be required to be at a certain location (ie home by the land-line phone) in order to satisfy the contactable requirement. Relevant then, due to a clear impact on the crew member's liberties on the day; but with everyone carrying mobile devices (likely to be company-issued), surely this is now defunct? A contactable day meaning that you just have to have your phone on during a set time period; free to do as you please on the day, but still not a legal day OFF and no addition to cumulative duty. Thoughts (or regulations!) appreciated.
Looking at this from an ad hoc operator perspective rather than a scheduled operator.
Thanks in advance for any feedback
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 387
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From: Centre of Universe
[QUOTE=If you say so;10531204]Looking for guidance ref operators counting Contactable period as duty? Clearly any rostered contactable day means that the day cannot be classed as OFF, but does the contracted period of contactability count towards cumulative duty?
My thoughts on the matter are that counting contactable as duty harps back to the days pre-mobile comms and email where the staff member might be required to be at a certain location (ie home by the land-line phone) in order to satisfy the contactable requirement. Relevant then, due to a clear impact on the crew member's liberties on the day; but with everyone carrying mobile devices (likely to be company-issued), surely this is now defunct? A contactable day meaning that you just have to have your phone on during a set time period; free to do as you please on the day, but still not a legal day OFF and no addition to cumulative duty. Thoughts (or regulations!) appreciated.
Looking at this from an ad hoc operator perspective rather than a scheduled operator.
Ish)
Contactable was an old UK CAP371 definition, period say 09-11LT then 10hrs notice needed.
Nowadays its EASA FTL and reserve which is pretty similar (ish)
Again as per a thread about standby time you need to say if AOC or Biz or something else for full advice
My thoughts on the matter are that counting contactable as duty harps back to the days pre-mobile comms and email where the staff member might be required to be at a certain location (ie home by the land-line phone) in order to satisfy the contactable requirement. Relevant then, due to a clear impact on the crew member's liberties on the day; but with everyone carrying mobile devices (likely to be company-issued), surely this is now defunct? A contactable day meaning that you just have to have your phone on during a set time period; free to do as you please on the day, but still not a legal day OFF and no addition to cumulative duty. Thoughts (or regulations!) appreciated.
Looking at this from an ad hoc operator perspective rather than a scheduled operator.
Ish)
Contactable was an old UK CAP371 definition, period say 09-11LT then 10hrs notice needed.
Nowadays its EASA FTL and reserve which is pretty similar (ish)
Again as per a thread about standby time you need to say if AOC or Biz or something else for full advice
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,265
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From: Central UK
It is clearly unsupportable nonsense to suggest that "everyone' has a mobile phone. Until that is a requirement of passing your medical that cannot be the case.
Even if crew do posess one the company cannot dicate that they carry it when not on duty.
Equally they cannot require them to remain in areas of mobile coverage when not on duty.
If they choose to so constrain the crew outside a duty period as above then the employee is clearly acting at the employer's behest and is thus on duty.
Even if crew do posess one the company cannot dicate that they carry it when not on duty.
Equally they cannot require them to remain in areas of mobile coverage when not on duty.
If they choose to so constrain the crew outside a duty period as above then the employee is clearly acting at the employer's behest and is thus on duty.
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: UK
It is clearly unsupportable nonsense to suggest that "everyone' has a mobile phone. Until that is a requirement of passing your medical that cannot be the case.
Even if crew do posess one the company cannot dicate that they carry it when not on duty.
Equally they cannot require them to remain in areas of mobile coverage when not on duty.
If they choose to so constrain the crew outside a duty period as above then the employee is clearly acting at the employer's behest and is thus on duty.
Even if crew do posess one the company cannot dicate that they carry it when not on duty.
Equally they cannot require them to remain in areas of mobile coverage when not on duty.
If they choose to so constrain the crew outside a duty period as above then the employee is clearly acting at the employer's behest and is thus on duty.
Not sure which planet you've come from but the contactable duty as per the old CAP371 is as above, normally a 2 hour duty, and not accountable to duty hours.
I never had a Pilot complain if he had a contactable because if he did he wouldn't see one ever again and just get a nice 8 hour standby stuffed on his roster (and that's accountable)
And in the old days when contactable was in place there was no such thing as a mobile phone either
