ETOPS question: must ETP be necessarily between EEP and EXP?

[anashimmy]

This is something that happens sometimes in trasatlantic flights in the company I work for: suitable alternates are choosen for the EEP-EXP (for ex LPLA-CYYT), and adequate above minima are choosen as ETOPS alternates (ex LPLA-CYHZ, or LPPS-CYYT), and the ETP falls after the EXP or before the EEP.

Some Cpts won't accept a FPL like this, and we have to ignore a valid and suitable station, and manually choose a further EEP or EXP station, elongating the ETOPS period just for the ETP to be between the two points.. does this make sense?

I searched documents and training manuals about this and couldn't find anything saying that the ETP must be in the ETOPS period, but could't find anything stating the contrary also...

Can you elucidate me about this, preferably indicating the sources?

Thank you so much

[APAW1]

Hi Anashimmy,

I'm not sure that I completely understand your question but i'll try to answer the best I can anyway.

An ETP is the equal time point within the ETOPS sector to both of the ETOPS alternates. So it should be the same flying time to get to either one of the diversion airports.

I take it you are using ETOPS 138 or 180.

[flyerSE]

I think that there could be a situation, very specific one, where the ETP could be outside the ENTRY, EXIT point, so as mentioned not between them. how it could be possible? as we know, the ETOPS circles are made according the still wind rulez, so the wind is 0, but the ETP is actaully taking the wind into acount, so there could be some special cases, teoretically where the ETP would be slightly after EXP, I think that I saw that once in my life, and was wondering as well but could make sence?

[T5Romeo]

Hi anashimmy,

I don't think thats supposed to happen, an ETP outside of your Etops-segment.

ETOPS-rules end at your EXP. From that moment on you're on 60-minute non-etops rules. An ETP has no value there anymore.

Kind regards.

[SR-22]

Normally it shouldn't be that way no, but it is possible yes, especially where the etops segment is rather short but with strong winds aloft. If you think about it, ETP has really nothing to do with EEP/EXP as such. As already pointed out, EEP/EXP are where your flightpath cross the still air 60 min distance from a adequate airport. But ETP is what is says, a equal TIME point. Same flying time to each alternate airport based on the forecasted winds with the worst case calculated failure scenario.


Someone mentioned Etops rules, well etops is mainly just a planning regulation. You have to have a contingency plan for those failures should they happen outside the 60 minutes. Now in-flight, let's say inside the etops segment the crew is not in any way obligated to divert to those planned etops alternates as that would be a emergency situation and it would be totally up to the commander what to do and where to go. So then the ETP is just a "nice to know info"