Definition of "Arrival time"
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Definition of "Arrival time"
I'm looking for any reference on the web to the ICAO (I believe; might be IATA but I doubt it) for what constitutes the proper definition of scheduled departure and arrival. I saw it once, years ago.
I do believe it is either chocks off/chocks on, or door closed/door open; whatever it is, something that is measured at the stand.
Carriers still seem to look at departures by stand time, but an increasing number seem to be comparing their scheduled arrival to, of all things, touchdown time, which is of course well short of anything happening on the stand.
Door open would certainly pick up those instances of stopping on stand and then waiting around for a steps or jetway operator.
If someone can point out the official line I would be grateful.
I do believe it is either chocks off/chocks on, or door closed/door open; whatever it is, something that is measured at the stand.
Carriers still seem to look at departures by stand time, but an increasing number seem to be comparing their scheduled arrival to, of all things, touchdown time, which is of course well short of anything happening on the stand.
Door open would certainly pick up those instances of stopping on stand and then waiting around for a steps or jetway operator.
If someone can point out the official line I would be grateful.
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Used to be whatever was agreed between despatcher and flight deck
Stitched up now by acars, and it's parkbrake set and engines shutdown and sent to Ops electronically
Our company define it as chocks off to chocks on. ACARS times are triggered by parking brake being released and movement. Can be overridden if waiting 15 minutes for the ground handling agent to turn up and physically insert the chocks, as happened recently to us at home base
Stitched up now by acars, and it's parkbrake set and engines shutdown and sent to Ops electronically
Our company define it as chocks off to chocks on. ACARS times are triggered by parking brake being released and movement. Can be overridden if waiting 15 minutes for the ground handling agent to turn up and physically insert the chocks, as happened recently to us at home base
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Used to vary from airline to airline but 'chocks' was by far the most usual. Of the airlines I dealt with, I also came across doors closed, and 'aircraft moving under own power'.
I can guarantee you they is no IATA/ICAO 'definition'.
I can guarantee you they is no IATA/ICAO 'definition'.
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WHBM what are you asking? The answers given above relate to ACTUAL time of departure / arrival. Aren't you asking about SCHEDULED time of departure/arrival, ie what does an airline expect to be happening at the aeroplane at the time that is printed in their timetable?
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Yes, I'm looking at both times you mention really, the comparison between the scheduled arrival time as published, and the actual time announced, to determine the accuracy of the "on time arrival" statistics. By taking the actual arrival time as the touchdown time this seems to distort these figures of how many arrivals are on time, or within some tolerance (typically up to 15 minutes).
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would you also not want to look at what stupid flying time airlines now show on websites, timeables etc so that even a very late departure from one station can still show as on time or early, for example the flying time from London to Dublin has been shown as getting longer in recent years yet i would suggets that for example lhr-dub is in reality 45-50 mins rather than the one hour to one hour twenty that some carrier show, therefore building in a time that massages the facts.
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we tell any pax who may be late to the gate for what ever reason and who have been denied boarding that the scheduled time of departure on their boarding pass is the time it HAS to be in the air by
but seriously where I work and the airlines we handle, and listening very carefully to the pre-flight announcement by the flight deck prior to departure and en-route and arrival, statistics wise it is classed as the on/off blocks time.
This is certainly how the UK's largest airline measures their OTP!
but seriously where I work and the airlines we handle, and listening very carefully to the pre-flight announcement by the flight deck prior to departure and en-route and arrival, statistics wise it is classed as the on/off blocks time.
This is certainly how the UK's largest airline measures their OTP!
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I agree that ACTUAL times of departures are measured from Off Blocks time; ie when the park brake is released and the aircraft starts moving on its wheels, be it by pushback or its own thrust. This also tallys with park brake release on ACARS equipped aircraft.
NOT when doors are closed.
NOT when the jetty is pulled away.
NOT when engine start is requested.
....and certainly not "rounded off to the nearest five minutes to make it easier to add up the blocks time at the end of the sector." This is particularly annoying and seems to be yet another lazy practice infecting our standards. I once started engines on a taxi-straight-off stand, then had to wait 5 minutes for the taxi clearance to be issued. The FO recorded it as an on time departure because we were "ready" to taxi on time. It wasn't, we were 5 minutes late releasing the park brake. Hence we recorded a delay code for Ramp Congestion.
As for the SCHEDULED time of departure, well I can't help you on that one, but I have always assumed it to be Off Blocks as above.
NOT when doors are closed.
NOT when the jetty is pulled away.
NOT when engine start is requested.
....and certainly not "rounded off to the nearest five minutes to make it easier to add up the blocks time at the end of the sector." This is particularly annoying and seems to be yet another lazy practice infecting our standards. I once started engines on a taxi-straight-off stand, then had to wait 5 minutes for the taxi clearance to be issued. The FO recorded it as an on time departure because we were "ready" to taxi on time. It wasn't, we were 5 minutes late releasing the park brake. Hence we recorded a delay code for Ramp Congestion.
As for the SCHEDULED time of departure, well I can't help you on that one, but I have always assumed it to be Off Blocks as above.
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Couple of points:
For Passenger Flights a Departure time shown in Reservation Systems and which in most cases is automatically passed to the DCS is normally the same as for the Operational Scheduled Departure time, but can be different (and on these very rare occasions is in my experience a +/- 5 to 15 minute range) and the reasons for it are tend to be 'cultural' and unless all involved in the Ground Handling are in the picture can lead to confusion.
All but one Airline and Systems Customer I have been involved in, the Operational Departure Time is when the Aircraft is off Blocks and Arrival is on Blocks. The exception used Take-off and Touchdown. But I cannot remember if this was reflected in the Scheduled Departure/Arrival times in the CRS/DCS.
One other difference that can be encountered is a true Shuttle operation where the Departure time is either the Operational Scheduled time, or when the Aircraft is full whichever is sooner.
For Passenger Flights a Departure time shown in Reservation Systems and which in most cases is automatically passed to the DCS is normally the same as for the Operational Scheduled Departure time, but can be different (and on these very rare occasions is in my experience a +/- 5 to 15 minute range) and the reasons for it are tend to be 'cultural' and unless all involved in the Ground Handling are in the picture can lead to confusion.
All but one Airline and Systems Customer I have been involved in, the Operational Departure Time is when the Aircraft is off Blocks and Arrival is on Blocks. The exception used Take-off and Touchdown. But I cannot remember if this was reflected in the Scheduled Departure/Arrival times in the CRS/DCS.
One other difference that can be encountered is a true Shuttle operation where the Departure time is either the Operational Scheduled time, or when the Aircraft is full whichever is sooner.
