Physical Updation of Jeppesen Manuals

[jetflyboy]

Hi All,

I am sure a lot of airlines still use Jeppesen hard copies for reference on board. I would like to know how this is done in other airlines and if possible any cost cutting ideas. We used to have Jeppesen Standard Manuals but have recently got it converted to Tailored Manuals.

Appreciate any feedback on the subject. Thanks in advance.

JDM

[Lauderdale]

jetfly.....question 1) Where is your operation based?

If within the UK, mainland Europe or the US have a look at this: Airside Services - Jeppesen

[Grasscarp]

I have worked in large UK airline and they got a company to come in and update all the manuals regularly. I have also worked in a small company and they got us pilots to take them on trips and do the updates ourselves. So you have expensive and you have cheap options.

[ab33t]

I think most companies look at the cheapest option available. I flew for a small company and had to do all this myself before flight

[jetflyboy]

Thanks All.

I am working with a major Commercial Airline in India.
No Jeppesen Airside Services available here.
Just boxes of Jeppesen revisions for around 75 aircrafts.
Done all the cost saving possible.
Need to know procedure used by other major airlines to ensure all their Jeppesen manuals are current and maintained in good condition.

[Grasscarp]

Jetflyboy. As already said many people do it themselves - either the ops staff or sometimes it's the pilots. Others pay someone else to come in and do it for them.

[merlinxx]

Grasscarp

Suggest you ctc yr country Jepp agent which I believe maybe CBAS in DEL, ask if they can quote for a Jepp laundry service

[stokieboy]

Ops Controllers at this company. In fact, just spent the day doing 3 ammendments for 7 vols! Recommend lots of coffee and Radio 2!

[CirrusF]

And whether your own staff, or a subcontractor, do it manually you can absolutely guarantee that the volumes will be full of errors after a few years. I fly for a small business jet operator and we recently did a full audit of our manuals (itself a highly painstaking task) and they were so full of errors we ended up having to throw out the entire stock and rebuy.

It does not help that the design of the Jeppesen folders themselves make extracting and changing charts from the first and last quarters of the folders very awkward. Moroever, most business jets do not have enough onboard storage space for all the required charts - I currently fly a brand new CJ3 and it does not have enough cockpit storage space even for the Euro-Mediterranean set.

The EU/OPS requirement to keep paper charts on board (even with electronic charts on the MFD) is detrimental to security. With electronic charts the updates are reliable and accurate - with paper charts they are not. MFD charts are easily found in and in-flight emergencey - paper charts are not.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Updation

Eh???????

WTF???????

[jetflyboy]

Thanks All for your inputs.

STOKIEBOY : 7 volumes of what ???? Standard Manuals ? Wow. Thats a lot + 3 amendments. I know what it feels like.

CIRRUSF : We have manually carried out the revisions from day 1 and till date have never had to throw away due to errors. We have replacement sets which we use to replace on board. Almost like having our own laundry service. Missing section ????YES. They go missing like anything. Free Struff on board I guess.
2 MFD on board I guess. What if 1 fails after departure. Is it OK to go on or HAVE to have access to hard copy.

GRASSCARP : Cheap is the way to go at the moment. Ops Staff here too.

Agaricus bisporus : ?????

Thanks
jetflyboy

[mad_jock]

I take it you boys have cottoned onto the old trick of actually saving the old plates and flogging them on ebay to flight sim pilots?

There a weird lot one of the lads flogged some of the airport plate books and the manky ones which were used 3 times a day for 6 months got 17 quid each for where as the spare clean one only went for 8 quid. The working ones should really have been disposed of as a biohazard.

[waren9]

Hurrah, there are still airlines that provide Jepps on the flightdeck!

Where I work, it is a mix of pilots supplying thier own for domestic work and the company on loading nav bags with whats required for international sectors.

I am not a fan of being forced to supply my own Jepps (it was in the contract when I joined) but trying to work with Jepps that poorly kept, pages with the holes torn out, put back in the wrong order ir missing altogether, hand written notes on plates, charts folded up incorrectly so you cant see which one it is..........just sh1ts me to tears.

Atleast with my own set, plates are clean, plastic protectors used, updated correctly and so on, clear hole reinforcers used where required etc etc. Much like each mechanic has his own tools, a pilot should have a well equiped nav bag!

A previous employer of mine used a contractor. Came in on a turnaround with a big trolley and swapped out the whole ships library.

[Qansett]

I'm sorry i don't get it...you mean your small company/airline are making their own aerodrome manuel or flightbags?? If my memories serve, I think Virgin Blue make their own one without buying Jepps manuel/flightbags.

[Lauderdale]

CirrusF

With electronic charts the updates are reliable and accurate - with paper charts they are not. MFD charts are easily found in and in-flight emergencey - paper charts are not.

So as jetflyboy stated his airline is a CA operator and not a BA likes yours which as you know operates in a completely different approval world, so are you suggesting that they retro fit a class II EFB (at $30,000 a tail)? Exleduing down time and purchasing a full suite of EFB apps to make the business case (let alone groundtool and a data delivery infrastructure)?

[merlinxx]

Lauderdale

I would request for those folks that are not coversant with the costing structures of initial purchase, and revisions of the database, please could you be a tad more specific on the costings based on a 5 year programme. It has to be 5 year CAPEX prog for it to be worthwhile surely ?


PS: Don't ask me I'm just the old fart in the corner

[Lauderdale]

merlinxx

Would love to provide all the detail on the various the business case scenarios (3yrs is do-able btw) biut as PPRUNE still not have a Paypal link and my philantropic part of my brain has been disengaged I will pass for now....

Btw...Jetflyboy...rather than using 'physical updation' the correct term is "Airway Manual Revision"

[ABO944]

I once tried selling some old plates on Ebay for the enthusiasts .... not a sniff!! Didn't bother with that again, now they get shredded!

[jetflyboy]

Warren9 - Thanks. Totally Agree with you.
Believe me or not, but our Pilots are carrying a lot of ego on their
shoulders and therefore unable to carry their own Jeppesen Manuals let alone own one.
Instead of a contractor, I make sure that the Airway Manuals are replaced on board the aircrafts and then checked for missing (often) and torn (very often) charts. I guess I should have a look at e-bay too. Maybe someone IS selling the ones that go missing on board.
As far as old approach charts are concerned we destroy them(without a shredding machine).

Lauderdale - "Airway Manual Revision" it is.
My airline is actually thinking and gone ahead with planning the instalment of Class II Jepp on board our aircrafts even though the authorities have their reservations.

Thanks all.

[SU-GCM]

I work for a small air cargo airline in Egypt and we Flight Operations personnel do update the jeppessen airway manuals ourselves, not a hard task ! !!