Airline Ops.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airline Ops.
I'm thinking about studying a City and Guilds course in Airline operations and Dispatch when I move back to England. I would like to somehow get into airline ops and wondered if any of you can tell me if this would be a good ' first step '? I worked on the ramp for quite some time in England, but I've spent the last 3 years in Malta selling timeshare and now I just feel the need to get back into aviation. Any advice would be fantastic. Also is the course I've mentioned the nearest thing that the UK have to an FAA Dispatch Licence?
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes Airline Ops is a good place to get a start in an Airline. Gives you a good basis for going elsewhere in an airline.
Not sure about the City & Guilds being the nearest thing to an FAA licence but it is certainly looked upon favourably by some carriers.
Not sure about the City & Guilds being the nearest thing to an FAA licence but it is certainly looked upon favourably by some carriers.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: birmingham
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
good luck with that - would certainly help in your quest for employment in the UK. There is no comparison though with the FAA licence - have a browse and you will see the credentials needed to pass the american licence exam - far more in depth knowledge required than the city and guilds course. fingers crossed for a successful course leading to a good job for you.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll be coming back to the UK in Jan 2010. Obviously the first thing I have to do is find work, hopefully with an airline. What airline/airport jobs are the best to get my 'foot in the door' while I'm doing a course. I've got experience in ground handling, but I'm willing to do anything related to aviation that's going to help me get into airline ops. Also, I'm fully aware of the current economical climate and the difficulty finding work. So...... where do I start? 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: North East
Age: 37
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anything aviation related will do; in my experience the pax services side of things is best (check-in, gate staff etc), as opposed to loading etc. Pax services people tend to see more operations stuff and can more easily transfer across.
Although doing the CG course would be great, I'm not sure how much faster you'd progress to an ops job compared to someone who works their way through check-in, gate staff, dispatch etc.
Although doing the CG course would be great, I'm not sure how much faster you'd progress to an ops job compared to someone who works their way through check-in, gate staff, dispatch etc.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: India
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why dont you join in Crew Scheduling.. normally there are no requirements - even for AIMS etc, as long as you are good at computers, most companies are fine & train you. My reason for suggesting this is coz you will get familiar with the flt ops basics & environment. From here its easier to get into dispatch.. Good luck!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fantasy island, dee plane boss, dee plane...
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C&G vs FAA
If you do the C & G course, it should* entitle you to undertake the shorter FAA flight dispatcher licence course.
*I did the C & G course a long time ago and then approached a well known dispatcher school in Ft Lauderdale with the details of the course and was told that I would be able to take the shorter duration course which is also cheaper. I ended up doing the longer course but for reasons of course schedule. Things may have changed but it is worth a shot as you will save alot of time and money.
If you only have enough funds for one then take the FAA.
The advice given re a start in crewing is good, if you can land a spot as a crewing asst then you'll be off to a decent start.
The only airline, that I know of, in the UK where the FAA licence is mandatory and where you might stand a shot at a starting role is Saudi Arabian Airlines at their dispatch centre in LHR. They only take FAA ticketed people as they operate to FAA 121 regs. Not too many in UK have that licence and when Saudia have some vacancies, most ops bods in UK are not eligible. They are a major airline and a few years there would be good on your CV if you can handle the high cost of living in LHR area but relatively low SV salary.
The good thing is that it is 100% pure flight dispatch, no monkey business or blurring of lines with gnd handling or crewing or any of that other stuff.
My 2c worth.
PM if you'd like more info.
Happy Hunting.
*I did the C & G course a long time ago and then approached a well known dispatcher school in Ft Lauderdale with the details of the course and was told that I would be able to take the shorter duration course which is also cheaper. I ended up doing the longer course but for reasons of course schedule. Things may have changed but it is worth a shot as you will save alot of time and money.
If you only have enough funds for one then take the FAA.
The advice given re a start in crewing is good, if you can land a spot as a crewing asst then you'll be off to a decent start.
The only airline, that I know of, in the UK where the FAA licence is mandatory and where you might stand a shot at a starting role is Saudi Arabian Airlines at their dispatch centre in LHR. They only take FAA ticketed people as they operate to FAA 121 regs. Not too many in UK have that licence and when Saudia have some vacancies, most ops bods in UK are not eligible. They are a major airline and a few years there would be good on your CV if you can handle the high cost of living in LHR area but relatively low SV salary.
The good thing is that it is 100% pure flight dispatch, no monkey business or blurring of lines with gnd handling or crewing or any of that other stuff.
My 2c worth.
PM if you'd like more info.
Happy Hunting.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Vancouver, BC.
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airlift21
The UK City and Guilds certificates are good and Desertopsguy also offers sound advice. It is important that you know however, that any European based course you do should be to the ICAO Doc. 7192 D3 Flight Operations Officers/Dispatchers syllabus- this is the basis for all European operations officers- except those dispatching under FAR 121 rules.
SITA London, as I understand it, now does, or will soon, offer such a course with an online interactive training component- if it is the course material I have had sight of previously- as I believe it to be, then it impressed me. AVTECH 2000 is your other alternative toward the C&G certificates.
The question about what to do first, 7192 or FAA; my advice is to do 7192 then the FAA. The first reason is that you're in Europe and not the States and the ICAO based course is techincally more comprehensive and is not US/FAA centric in its syllabus. And if you have completed the 7192 course you'll easily do the FAA license when you can.
As to the question- will it help me find a job in Ops? Absolutely, its unlikely that I would hire anyone without a suitable ops officer qualification.
The UK City and Guilds certificates are good and Desertopsguy also offers sound advice. It is important that you know however, that any European based course you do should be to the ICAO Doc. 7192 D3 Flight Operations Officers/Dispatchers syllabus- this is the basis for all European operations officers- except those dispatching under FAR 121 rules.
SITA London, as I understand it, now does, or will soon, offer such a course with an online interactive training component- if it is the course material I have had sight of previously- as I believe it to be, then it impressed me. AVTECH 2000 is your other alternative toward the C&G certificates.
The question about what to do first, 7192 or FAA; my advice is to do 7192 then the FAA. The first reason is that you're in Europe and not the States and the ICAO based course is techincally more comprehensive and is not US/FAA centric in its syllabus. And if you have completed the 7192 course you'll easily do the FAA license when you can.
As to the question- will it help me find a job in Ops? Absolutely, its unlikely that I would hire anyone without a suitable ops officer qualification.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just my tuppence worth,
In July last year i got a job as a ramp agent, and due to a re-shuffle within the company i was able to apply for and get job as dispatcher in May this year.
I realise that it is quite rare to have someone come from ramp to dispatch, normally pax services to dispatch.
In July last year i got a job as a ramp agent, and due to a re-shuffle within the company i was able to apply for and get job as dispatcher in May this year.
I realise that it is quite rare to have someone come from ramp to dispatch, normally pax services to dispatch.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks guys for your advice so far.
Regarding which course I choose depends on:
1. Which is the best course?
2. Which country will be best for finding work?
3. Cost of doing a course?
I have to say that at this point I'm favouring the FAA Dispatcher Licence a bit more than the other options, although C & G is far cheaper. But in the end I'd rather pay more to get the best. All this said and done, how is it looking for airport/airline jobs in the UK at the moment? From what little I've seen, the situation looks pretty dire. Or am I just looking in the wrong places?
Regarding which course I choose depends on:
1. Which is the best course?
2. Which country will be best for finding work?
3. Cost of doing a course?
I have to say that at this point I'm favouring the FAA Dispatcher Licence a bit more than the other options, although C & G is far cheaper. But in the end I'd rather pay more to get the best. All this said and done, how is it looking for airport/airline jobs in the UK at the moment? From what little I've seen, the situation looks pretty dire. Or am I just looking in the wrong places?
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Vancouver, BC.
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airlift
The FAA aircraft dispatchers courses are recognised and convenient - but do not assume you will be getting the best. Although, a useful qualification to have, it is largely US/FAA specific and does not cover 'rest of the world' ICAO based systems. The syllabus is also not as comprehensive in technical subjects as the ICAO 7192 D3 requirements; it is important to know that a US dispatcher continues his/her training once they join an airline. As someone without previous ops expereince, you would need to continue your studies to cover the gaps in the FAA dispatchers courses for work in Europe. But if you do want to do the course- Sheffield has been recommended to me by former students on many occasions.
The link below leads you to an interesting 2007 work by Andreas Cordes for his MSc at London City, it'll give you a feel for things and has an outline of ops officer/dispatcher training- in particular his comments on page 57.
At the end of the document the 7192 D3 syllabus is detailed and a sample course from LH and some other course suggestions.
http://www.eufalda.org/Download/Dispatch%20Study.pdf
The FAA aircraft dispatchers courses are recognised and convenient - but do not assume you will be getting the best. Although, a useful qualification to have, it is largely US/FAA specific and does not cover 'rest of the world' ICAO based systems. The syllabus is also not as comprehensive in technical subjects as the ICAO 7192 D3 requirements; it is important to know that a US dispatcher continues his/her training once they join an airline. As someone without previous ops expereince, you would need to continue your studies to cover the gaps in the FAA dispatchers courses for work in Europe. But if you do want to do the course- Sheffield has been recommended to me by former students on many occasions.
The link below leads you to an interesting 2007 work by Andreas Cordes for his MSc at London City, it'll give you a feel for things and has an outline of ops officer/dispatcher training- in particular his comments on page 57.
At the end of the document the 7192 D3 syllabus is detailed and a sample course from LH and some other course suggestions.
http://www.eufalda.org/Download/Dispatch%20Study.pdf
Last edited by no sig; 7th Oct 2009 at 21:57.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no sig
Thanks for that info. At least I know what I'm looking for now. AVTECH 2000 say their C & G course covers the ICAO Ops Officer syllabus and provides complete knowledge of Aviation Operations & Dispatch.
Cheers for the help. Any other advice you can think of would be very much appreciated.
Thanks for that info. At least I know what I'm looking for now. AVTECH 2000 say their C & G course covers the ICAO Ops Officer syllabus and provides complete knowledge of Aviation Operations & Dispatch.
Cheers for the help. Any other advice you can think of would be very much appreciated.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Vancouver, BC.
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airlift21
You're welcome; the only other suggestion I'd make, is take your time in finding the right course to suit you and your budget. Don't be tempted to jump at any one course just yet. By all means have a look over the C&G course materials and as I mentioned before, check with SITA to see how far on they are with the new 'online study' 7192 course that I've heard they are soon to be offering.
Good Luck.
You're welcome; the only other suggestion I'd make, is take your time in finding the right course to suit you and your budget. Don't be tempted to jump at any one course just yet. By all means have a look over the C&G course materials and as I mentioned before, check with SITA to see how far on they are with the new 'online study' 7192 course that I've heard they are soon to be offering.
Good Luck.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: England
Posts: 367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Employment
Airlift21
Starting with a crewing department is excellent advice then, if I were you, go straight for the ICAO 7192 D3 syllabus. FAA part 65 is very good and I hold a licence but it is not applicable in Europe and does not address European regulations EU-OPS 1 or 3. As an example check out EU-OPS subpart G versus FAR Part 121 FAR Part 121 Sec. 121.189 effective as of 03/20/1998 They are different.
The regulatory method of aircraft dispatch in the USA is excellent and has been safe and efficient since the late 1930s it is a pity that we do not use the same system here but that of course is down to the complete paranoia of the UK CAA and their fear of having to pay a premium for a licensed dispatcher. It will come one day though I just hope that an accident doesn't force or hasten the issue. IR OPS may address the issue if enough of the operators submit an NPA?
As for you stay in touch I may be able to help you. Good luck.
Regards
EM
Starting with a crewing department is excellent advice then, if I were you, go straight for the ICAO 7192 D3 syllabus. FAA part 65 is very good and I hold a licence but it is not applicable in Europe and does not address European regulations EU-OPS 1 or 3. As an example check out EU-OPS subpart G versus FAR Part 121 FAR Part 121 Sec. 121.189 effective as of 03/20/1998 They are different.
The regulatory method of aircraft dispatch in the USA is excellent and has been safe and efficient since the late 1930s it is a pity that we do not use the same system here but that of course is down to the complete paranoia of the UK CAA and their fear of having to pay a premium for a licensed dispatcher. It will come one day though I just hope that an accident doesn't force or hasten the issue. IR OPS may address the issue if enough of the operators submit an NPA?
As for you stay in touch I may be able to help you. Good luck.
Regards
EM
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Age: 49
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SITA London, as I understand it, now does, or will soon, offer such a course with an online interactive training component
can you please give me more details on SITA information i.e. web link
as i am also considering to study AVTECH2000 course.
Thanks
Sai
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
saikham,
As far as I can tell, SITA doesn't offer ICAO 7192 yet, unless I'm missing something on their website. For any UK based training for airline ops & dispatch, I think AVTECH 2000 is the only option. If anyone else knows of any other options, then I would like to hear about it.
As far as I can tell, SITA doesn't offer ICAO 7192 yet, unless I'm missing something on their website. For any UK based training for airline ops & dispatch, I think AVTECH 2000 is the only option. If anyone else knows of any other options, then I would like to hear about it.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Vancouver, BC.
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I mentioned in my earlier post, I have been told that SITA have indeed purchased the Bristol Ground School 7192 D3 Ops course, I understand this to be the case, however, I'd contact them direct and ask the question for a definitive answer. Let us know.
1 London Gate
252-254 Blyth Road Hayes,
Middlesex UB3 1BW United Kingdom
Tel: +44 20 8756 8000
[email protected]
1 London Gate
252-254 Blyth Road Hayes,
Middlesex UB3 1BW United Kingdom
Tel: +44 20 8756 8000
[email protected]
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Vancouver, BC.
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SITA have advised me that their new ICAO 7192 D3 course will be in conjunction with Bristol Ground School and should be available in the new year. I certainly think this is well worth investigating.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: INDIA
Age: 38
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Msc or MBA –for nil aviation experience
Hi there guys
Would like to know what is the difference between Msc in Air Transport management and MBA in aviation management?
I have got a offer letter from Griffith university in Australia for MBA in aviation management( Griffith University | Graduate Certificate in Aviation Management - Nathan )
and Buckinghamshire new university in UK for Msc in air transport management for this January batch?(Air Transport Management )
I have done my bachelors degree in electrical and electronics and have worked in dell computers for 2 years as a senior hardware technical support executive. 60 percent of the people have told me that doing these masters degree in a waste of time and the rest 40 % told me that I is a very good way to enter the industry, especially for a person with no aviation experience like me .
From what I come to know, nothing in aviation is 100 % sure. So I am willing to take the chance. Flight operation is what I am mainly interested in! But yes if I don’t get through that I can work in other field also .I take these master degrees as an entry ticket to the aviation industry.
So guys I would like your views on both of the MBA and MSc . If anybody body has finished the above programs from these colleges let me know your feedbacks regarding the university also .It will really help me make a good decision. Thanks a million for your time
Would like to know what is the difference between Msc in Air Transport management and MBA in aviation management?
I have got a offer letter from Griffith university in Australia for MBA in aviation management( Griffith University | Graduate Certificate in Aviation Management - Nathan )
and Buckinghamshire new university in UK for Msc in air transport management for this January batch?(Air Transport Management )
I have done my bachelors degree in electrical and electronics and have worked in dell computers for 2 years as a senior hardware technical support executive. 60 percent of the people have told me that doing these masters degree in a waste of time and the rest 40 % told me that I is a very good way to enter the industry, especially for a person with no aviation experience like me .
From what I come to know, nothing in aviation is 100 % sure. So I am willing to take the chance. Flight operation is what I am mainly interested in! But yes if I don’t get through that I can work in other field also .I take these master degrees as an entry ticket to the aviation industry.
So guys I would like your views on both of the MBA and MSc . If anybody body has finished the above programs from these colleges let me know your feedbacks regarding the university also .It will really help me make a good decision. Thanks a million for your time
