Overflight Clearances - How do the agencies do it?
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Overflight Clearances - How do the agencies do it?
To all the professional ops bods.
OK a new start up biz jet company has AFTN access and CAP 555 contacts and wants to do all the overflight clearances in house, it gets 12 hours notice to overfly various sub-Saharan African countries. What do you do??
The obvious answer is you go to the agents like Jetex, UAS or Hadid and others, they seem to be able to get these permits within two hours at times, if the start up company tried it probably wouldn't even be able to talk to anyone at the CAA departments and no way get a reply on AFTN!
So my question to those in the know is, how DO the agencies get the permits at short notice? Is it contacts within that none of us have?
It would be really interesting to know how they get it done when others simply cannot
Really appreciate your answers, been in the biz twenty years and this knowledge has evaded me all this time so come on put me out of my misery, what's the secret?
Regards
OK a new start up biz jet company has AFTN access and CAP 555 contacts and wants to do all the overflight clearances in house, it gets 12 hours notice to overfly various sub-Saharan African countries. What do you do??
The obvious answer is you go to the agents like Jetex, UAS or Hadid and others, they seem to be able to get these permits within two hours at times, if the start up company tried it probably wouldn't even be able to talk to anyone at the CAA departments and no way get a reply on AFTN!
So my question to those in the know is, how DO the agencies get the permits at short notice? Is it contacts within that none of us have?
It would be really interesting to know how they get it done when others simply cannot
Really appreciate your answers, been in the biz twenty years and this knowledge has evaded me all this time so come on put me out of my misery, what's the secret?
Regards
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Flareman,
You are asking for answers that businesses for years have kept secret, I personally worked obtaining overflight clearances and it is a case of having the good old contacts built up over the years and also the nohow on how to get round them. It isn't that hard just making sure someone can apply quickly and efficiently.
Thanks
You are asking for answers that businesses for years have kept secret, I personally worked obtaining overflight clearances and it is a case of having the good old contacts built up over the years and also the nohow on how to get round them. It isn't that hard just making sure someone can apply quickly and efficiently.
Thanks
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Simple
An in country rep either retained or on commission, this rep will have proved that his contacts with DGCA/Military/Diplo/ATC/Airport Director etc are valid and useful. This rep will in some circumstances be granted the auth to issue permits, then lodge these with the DGCA etc at the first opportunity.
I have used Hadid and know some of their African reps, some are ex DGCA/ATC/Airline etc.
I agree they are worth their weight in gold.
Another snag is that some operators will not make an application in French to Francophone North/West African countries, thus the DGCA staffers will either delay and/or ignore said application.
I have used Hadid and know some of their African reps, some are ex DGCA/ATC/Airline etc.
I agree they are worth their weight in gold.
Another snag is that some operators will not make an application in French to Francophone North/West African countries, thus the DGCA staffers will either delay and/or ignore said application.
Last edited by merlinxx; 31st Oct 2008 at 11:45. Reason: Missed an R there
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Thanks for the replies, very interesting. I have always thought it would be contacts on commission.
So would it be fair to say a non-scheduled operator trying to get short notice permits in Africa has no chance except to use agency?
I only ask because the head of my company believes we should be able to do it all in house, i think i may need to re-educate him!
So would it be fair to say a non-scheduled operator trying to get short notice permits in Africa has no chance except to use agency?
I only ask because the head of my company believes we should be able to do it all in house, i think i may need to re-educate him!
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Flareman, just ask the boss why the agencies charge for this service. They've spent many years (believe me it does take years, I've been there and done it) to get these situations set up, keep them sweet (no dash.baksh etc) and to maintain a high level of credibility both operationally and financially. That's why the agencies (UV,AR, Jepp etc) can offer you credit down line, not just for permits, but also handling, nav, fuel etc.
It's bloody hard work, and the customer, you has to be credit worthy with the agency.
Lets face it, there are many authorities world wide who ain't going to give you credit as an ad-hoc operator unless you're very well known.
Cheers
It's bloody hard work, and the customer, you has to be credit worthy with the agency.
Lets face it, there are many authorities world wide who ain't going to give you credit as an ad-hoc operator unless you're very well known.
Cheers
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Overflights
I know some guys and girls in LUX, that used Hadid Intl and UAS almost every day, and they siad that they did many flights that they would of turned down in other circumstances. I.E. Increased profit for them.
One of the best sources years ago, I was informed of was CAP55 team in LHR, sadly now gone. We use to use the Dutch Embassy ctcs if we could fine them in...
One of the best sources years ago, I was informed of was CAP55 team in LHR, sadly now gone. We use to use the Dutch Embassy ctcs if we could fine them in...
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For short notice Africa permits I swear by Ramjet in RKT RamJet Aviation Support - Support you can count on!
Excellent guys
VEEPS
Excellent guys
VEEPS
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VP8
Well along with RamJet in the Gulf you can add Hadid, UAS (ex Hadid guys), Jetex (ex Hadid VP), CJS and of course the traditional folks UV, Jepp, Jet Avtn etc etc.
Also the Indian folks have coverage also, CBAS, Trans Asian etc
A wonderous group, they all seem to make a living and spend heavily on media addvertising. In the past I have used all apart from Jetex & CJS, I'm happy with the folks I've used and am loyal to a few.
Good luck with your choice, and remeber you can switch at any time
Also the Indian folks have coverage also, CBAS, Trans Asian etc
A wonderous group, they all seem to make a living and spend heavily on media addvertising. In the past I have used all apart from Jetex & CJS, I'm happy with the folks I've used and am loyal to a few.
Good luck with your choice, and remeber you can switch at any time
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Clearences
well agencies expertise in this i guess..cos they mainatain strong links with CAA's around the world...as to service providers... Syrian Dominance seems to be coming to an end because of excellant companies such as ASM(Aviation Services Management) in UAE...etc.
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Try Aviation Services Management (ASM) - www.asm.services.aero
Their 24/7 operations can help you out at short notice for all flight support services.
Their rates are very cost effective compared to most in the region too.
Their 24/7 operations can help you out at short notice for all flight support services.
Their rates are very cost effective compared to most in the region too.
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Phoenix 1978
Hey There,
Well said indeed, its a relief to work with a professional company who you can communicate with, leaving aside big egos.
My company has been using ASM for a while now, without any hiccups.
Well said indeed, its a relief to work with a professional company who you can communicate with, leaving aside big egos.
My company has been using ASM for a while now, without any hiccups.
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Overflight Clearance
I think it is the long service in the aviation industry and experience. There are many companies who can do that and not only JETEX,UAS or HADID. We for EG. Use ASM, they have Branches in UK,UAE,INDIA and Pakistan. try them if you need help for these services.
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Clearance
Hi there,
It seems you got it wrong, I as a Capt do not need to promote any service provider, if I had the time I would do all that myself for my flights......it is not rocket science
It seems you got it wrong, I as a Capt do not need to promote any service provider, if I had the time I would do all that myself for my flights......it is not rocket science
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Bebe
If we had the time of course we could do it, but in this business who has!
I am familiar with the processes and if I have a bit of notice I do indeed fire off an AFTN message and get what I need but in my particular operation I get 6 hours notice to go to sub-Saharan Africa and I as routine go to the agents for this, my interest is the way in which the agencies get these permits done, I guessed it would be a contact on the ground earning commission but I do not know the way they do it.
Thanks to all for info
If we had the time of course we could do it, but in this business who has!
I am familiar with the processes and if I have a bit of notice I do indeed fire off an AFTN message and get what I need but in my particular operation I get 6 hours notice to go to sub-Saharan Africa and I as routine go to the agents for this, my interest is the way in which the agencies get these permits done, I guessed it would be a contact on the ground earning commission but I do not know the way they do it.
Thanks to all for info
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i dread trying to teach the next in line what i know on this subject
for every logical written process there is a side door
in aviation nobody in the commercial division accepts CAN'T from flight operations..
after 36 years in flight ops i can still learn a lot from others.. and those others are people like merlin ...
for every logical written process there is a side door
in aviation nobody in the commercial division accepts CAN'T from flight operations..
after 36 years in flight ops i can still learn a lot from others.. and those others are people like merlin ...
