HAJJ question
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HAJJ question
Hi all,
Our company has had a few commercial enquiries regarding the HAJJ (HADJ sp?). We've never done it before! - am having a few problems on the route planning side. Can anyone tell me if there are specific entry / exit points into Jeddah coming in from West Africa...? any links to documents would be great also.... (We dont have hard copies of jeppy charts in the office, only e-link)
Cheers
Our company has had a few commercial enquiries regarding the HAJJ (HADJ sp?). We've never done it before! - am having a few problems on the route planning side. Can anyone tell me if there are specific entry / exit points into Jeddah coming in from West Africa...? any links to documents would be great also.... (We dont have hard copies of jeppy charts in the office, only e-link)
Cheers
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Hajj routes published in Jepp as separate chart. If you've not got a hard copy, get one you'll need it for Rte Planning. Entry points and slot procs also published. Ig you've not got a copy, ctc Jepp DEN/FRA. Jeppesen.com - Making Every Mission Possible
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Suggestions
I flew my first Hajj in 1974, and last one was 2005...
Often was from West Africa.
Entry airports are Jeddah or Medina (customs and immigration).
Jeppesen FRA publishes a couple of charts specific to Saudia Airlines.
These are of religious nature...
Such as points at which to announce to pilgrims "where to start praying".
These contracts are often through Saudia. They will get you these charts.
By the way, plan to tanker max fuel out of Saudi Arabia.
Get a few local (Saudi) agents to assist for arrivals and departure formalities.
Example - Crew passports remaining in the terminal during your layover, the GDs and ATC flight plans.
Get ground engineers (mechanics) qualified to taxi your airplanes.
You don't want your cockpit crew to have to re-position the planes to the Haj terminal 4 hours before departure.
xxx
Suggest you get an adequate number of F/As familiar with language of passengers.
Majority do not speak English.
For West Africa, French is most common language. Arabic can be helpful.
xxx
If you do not have time to train F/As from these countries, use your regular F/As.
Hire additional local F/As as "CSRs" (Cabin Service Representatives) who speak English.
While they could not serve as required F/As, they can help for languages and passenger handling.
Train them to operate the cabin PA system, galley equipment and cabin meal service.
Example, in a 747 we generally had 5 or 6 "extra" CSRs. At least one per cabin.
They remained aboard (and slept in aircraft on empty sectors).
xxx
Be ready for possible "extra flights" to other areas than West Africa...
When (another) carrier airplane is delayed or grounded, they might offer your company operate extra flights.
Example - UK, Germany, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia or other places.
So, be equipped to handle these alternatives.
Then there are "deportee" flights, beyond the end of the basic contracts.
Flying those people who attempted to remain in Saudi Arabia and enjoy the quality of life of the Kingdom.
xxx
Do you know about "Zamzam water" - (holy water from Mecca)...?
On the way home, pilgrims will each bring a 20 liter jerrycan of holy water... YES -
You will carry enough water to flood the entire Sahara Desert on the way back.
A Mecca pilgrimage is also a "shopping trip" to these good people.
So, expect them to attempt to bring TVs, washing machines or refrigerators as carry-on baggage.
So, keep an eye on baggage weights.
xxx
Happy contrails
Often was from West Africa.
Entry airports are Jeddah or Medina (customs and immigration).
Jeppesen FRA publishes a couple of charts specific to Saudia Airlines.
These are of religious nature...
Such as points at which to announce to pilgrims "where to start praying".
These contracts are often through Saudia. They will get you these charts.
By the way, plan to tanker max fuel out of Saudi Arabia.
Get a few local (Saudi) agents to assist for arrivals and departure formalities.
Example - Crew passports remaining in the terminal during your layover, the GDs and ATC flight plans.
Get ground engineers (mechanics) qualified to taxi your airplanes.
You don't want your cockpit crew to have to re-position the planes to the Haj terminal 4 hours before departure.
xxx
Suggest you get an adequate number of F/As familiar with language of passengers.
Majority do not speak English.
For West Africa, French is most common language. Arabic can be helpful.
xxx
If you do not have time to train F/As from these countries, use your regular F/As.
Hire additional local F/As as "CSRs" (Cabin Service Representatives) who speak English.
While they could not serve as required F/As, they can help for languages and passenger handling.
Train them to operate the cabin PA system, galley equipment and cabin meal service.
Example, in a 747 we generally had 5 or 6 "extra" CSRs. At least one per cabin.
They remained aboard (and slept in aircraft on empty sectors).
xxx
Be ready for possible "extra flights" to other areas than West Africa...
When (another) carrier airplane is delayed or grounded, they might offer your company operate extra flights.
Example - UK, Germany, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia or other places.
So, be equipped to handle these alternatives.
Then there are "deportee" flights, beyond the end of the basic contracts.
Flying those people who attempted to remain in Saudi Arabia and enjoy the quality of life of the Kingdom.
xxx
Do you know about "Zamzam water" - (holy water from Mecca)...?
On the way home, pilgrims will each bring a 20 liter jerrycan of holy water... YES -
You will carry enough water to flood the entire Sahara Desert on the way back.
A Mecca pilgrimage is also a "shopping trip" to these good people.
So, expect them to attempt to bring TVs, washing machines or refrigerators as carry-on baggage.
So, keep an eye on baggage weights.
xxx
Happy contrails
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Routing to Jeddah or Medinah
Coming from West Africa -
xxx
Expect routing through Chad (Njamena), Khartoum VOR, Port Sudan VOR to Jeddah VOR.
I do not recall proceeding directly to Medinah from West Africa.
My flights to Medina were from North Africa, through Egypt, Wejh VOR then Medina VOR.
Sometimes had to position Jeddah - Medina or the opposite. Just a 30 minutes flight, even less.
Jeddah generally uses runway 34L for departures, and 34C for arrivals.
On arrival, you roll to the end of 34C which is short taxi to the Haj terminal.
Lots of "one way" airways in that part of the world.
xxx
Note about West Africa...
Do not expect them to send a "departure message" to Jeddah.
Suggest each crew to have a mobile phone to send departure text message with ETA when taking off.
xxx
Happy contrails
xxx
Expect routing through Chad (Njamena), Khartoum VOR, Port Sudan VOR to Jeddah VOR.
I do not recall proceeding directly to Medinah from West Africa.
My flights to Medina were from North Africa, through Egypt, Wejh VOR then Medina VOR.
Sometimes had to position Jeddah - Medina or the opposite. Just a 30 minutes flight, even less.
Jeddah generally uses runway 34L for departures, and 34C for arrivals.
On arrival, you roll to the end of 34C which is short taxi to the Haj terminal.
Lots of "one way" airways in that part of the world.
xxx
Note about West Africa...
Do not expect them to send a "departure message" to Jeddah.
Suggest each crew to have a mobile phone to send departure text message with ETA when taking off.
xxx
Happy contrails
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And whatever you do, make sure you get your in-country staff Saudi visas organised well in advance. Consider using a 'visa agent' to obtain the visa, it may cost a few dollars but worth it.
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Hahaha! Lauderdale! my dear friend!... Only speculative at the moment... figured i'd get some gen before spending 'you know who's' hard earned $$...... Hope you're well! Beer soon.....?
Many thanks for the replies guys BelArg... YOU ARE A LEGEND!
Many thanks for the replies guys BelArg... YOU ARE A LEGEND!
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HAJJ FLIGHTS...
Fairly good source of income for the operator, but bloody hard work for the crew and the techies on the ground...
Jeddah isnt as bad as some may say. Follow the rules - as you would in any country you visit and you will be fine.
Fairly good source of income for the operator, but bloody hard work for the crew and the techies on the ground...
Jeddah isnt as bad as some may say. Follow the rules - as you would in any country you visit and you will be fine.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fantasy island, dee plane boss, dee plane...
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Asecna
Hi,
You should be able to find some of the info you need on the ASECNA site.
AIS ASECNA
There are notams on there specifically dealing with Hajj 08'.
Just watch out for the fony asecna invoices the swindlers in LOS send out trying to scam you every Hajj time.
All the best
You should be able to find some of the info you need on the ASECNA site.
AIS ASECNA
There are notams on there specifically dealing with Hajj 08'.
Just watch out for the fony asecna invoices the swindlers in LOS send out trying to scam you every Hajj time.
All the best
