Overflight Permits
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: london, uk
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Overflight Permits
Hi all
I have just moved from medium haul biz jet ops to long haul.
The overflight permits are a challenge for me, I believe the best way is to use AFTN, I have to avoid agents and do it myself.
Can you give me some examples of the format for AFTN messages you all use that works best, I may have short notice jobs, how do you chase them when needed?
The flight planning is also a challenge now I have to deal with NAT for the US trips. Not entirely sure of the processes for US trip planning, I know about the TSA waiver scheme.
I would really appreciate any advice and tips from you experienced ops bods
Cheers
I have just moved from medium haul biz jet ops to long haul.
The overflight permits are a challenge for me, I believe the best way is to use AFTN, I have to avoid agents and do it myself.
Can you give me some examples of the format for AFTN messages you all use that works best, I may have short notice jobs, how do you chase them when needed?
The flight planning is also a challenge now I have to deal with NAT for the US trips. Not entirely sure of the processes for US trip planning, I know about the TSA waiver scheme.
I would really appreciate any advice and tips from you experienced ops bods
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Hi there,
A bit of advice regarding overflight/landing permits. When you have PLENTY of time, try to do it yourself, it gives you some valuable contacts with differents CAA's as well. When you're in a hurry, don't waiste time and use an agent! These days there are some very profi agents around which can arrange permissions very quickly and for a reasonable price as well. The flights these days are simply too important/expensive to be delayed because of a missing permit. Try to negotiate a deal with some permission agent and it will save you time, nerves and your job in the end.
For adresses of CAA's around the world, have a look at CAP 555 which is available in the UK. Regarding formats, just the standard details are normally sufficient. Although there are some countries which require a specific format to be used: Oman, Belarus, Russia, etc.
Regarding the flightplanning, I guess there are already some posts on this forum. Otherwise refer to the online manuals available for flightplanning in the Northern Atlantic.
Any questions, PM me.
Ciao
A bit of advice regarding overflight/landing permits. When you have PLENTY of time, try to do it yourself, it gives you some valuable contacts with differents CAA's as well. When you're in a hurry, don't waiste time and use an agent! These days there are some very profi agents around which can arrange permissions very quickly and for a reasonable price as well. The flights these days are simply too important/expensive to be delayed because of a missing permit. Try to negotiate a deal with some permission agent and it will save you time, nerves and your job in the end.
For adresses of CAA's around the world, have a look at CAP 555 which is available in the UK. Regarding formats, just the standard details are normally sufficient. Although there are some countries which require a specific format to be used: Oman, Belarus, Russia, etc.
Regarding the flightplanning, I guess there are already some posts on this forum. Otherwise refer to the online manuals available for flightplanning in the Northern Atlantic.
Any questions, PM me.
Ciao
Join Date: Feb 2001
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My experience suggests that you should progress step by step (I'm second to GVA Dispatch on that) - if your have plenty of time for a particular flight, try to deal yourself. You will find that in many countries the addresses and phones listed in jepps/cap555/aip/etc are not really the contacts for individuals who are dealing with permits, it is often general numbers and switch boards. After some time you will have your own address book for "right" people. In many (if not most) cases it is essensial to talk to permit department, not just sending them a fax/sita/aftn message. Actually it is a small world, even in big countries it is usually just 2-3 people who dealing with permits and after some time you will start to recognise their voice over a phone 
After establishing an "individual" contacts you will also get some out-of-hours phone numbers which are not published anywhere but you need them to do something in the evening/night/weekend time.
To be successfull with some of the countries you also expected to talk with them in their language (for ex-colonies and French/Spanish/Portugese/etc countries). And still there are some countries where you need to use agents, just accept it as a fact.
Send fax/aftn/sita as approapriate and unless it is a country known for a hassle-free and swift replies, give them a call in 15-30 minutes to verify they've got your application and aware of it. Very often your applications could be "lost".
On application we usually using this format:
Herewith [airline name] kindly requests landing/overflight permission for the following flight:
operator:
callsign:
aircraft type: [specify acft type both in code and plain language]
aircraft reg:
mtow:
route: [put both ICAO and IATA codes for org/dst airports]
schedule: [in UTC]
purpose of the flight: [describe in short what you carry and sometimes for what reason, or ferry/empty]
for some countries you should also put number of crew and their nationalities, some countries also want to see airspace entry/en-route/exit points with timing.
Otherwise for urgent matters and for CIS/Middle East/African countries (unless you already familiar with getting permits there) go to the agents.
Hope it helps.
After establishing an "individual" contacts you will also get some out-of-hours phone numbers which are not published anywhere but you need them to do something in the evening/night/weekend time.To be successfull with some of the countries you also expected to talk with them in their language (for ex-colonies and French/Spanish/Portugese/etc countries). And still there are some countries where you need to use agents, just accept it as a fact.
Send fax/aftn/sita as approapriate and unless it is a country known for a hassle-free and swift replies, give them a call in 15-30 minutes to verify they've got your application and aware of it. Very often your applications could be "lost".
On application we usually using this format:
Herewith [airline name] kindly requests landing/overflight permission for the following flight:
operator:
callsign:
aircraft type: [specify acft type both in code and plain language]
aircraft reg:
mtow:
route: [put both ICAO and IATA codes for org/dst airports]
schedule: [in UTC]
purpose of the flight: [describe in short what you carry and sometimes for what reason, or ferry/empty]
for some countries you should also put number of crew and their nationalities, some countries also want to see airspace entry/en-route/exit points with timing.
Otherwise for urgent matters and for CIS/Middle East/African countries (unless you already familiar with getting permits there) go to the agents.
Hope it helps.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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good call cargo one..but now a lot more countries asking for a/c documents-company aoc's and insurance certs.
i have a question-if you use an agent
for overflight in africa for an aftn code beginning with H (ie Ethiopia HAAB) will the agent absorb the class B aftn transmisison charge for HECA in his 100 or 200 usd charge??
thks
i have a question-if you use an agent
for overflight in africa for an aftn code beginning with H (ie Ethiopia HAAB) will the agent absorb the class B aftn transmisison charge for HECA in his 100 or 200 usd charge??
thks
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: It wasn't me, I wasn't there, wrong country ;-)
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I don't see a problem you folks seem to have with the suppliers of support services. They have built their contacts and networks over very many years (25+), yes OK they charge, but it costs to maintain a credible network and relations with the global Aviation Aviation Authorities.
Grow up and accept the situation, or get yourself a fully staffed 52/24/7 functioning Operations/Govt Affairs Dept.
Grow up and accept the situation, or get yourself a fully staffed 52/24/7 functioning Operations/Govt Affairs Dept.
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acmi48
That's for sure. This is one of the reasons why you should call after sending an application. If you & your fleet is very well known in this country you may not need to send docs unless your certs what they have already are expired.
p.s. I never seen agents to charge us for any sita/aftn transmissions. Sometimes they could charge for sending the faxes but even that is rare.
good call cargo one..but now a lot more countries asking for a/c documents-company aoc's and insurance certs.
p.s. I never seen agents to charge us for any sita/aftn transmissions. Sometimes they could charge for sending the faxes but even that is rare.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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merlinxx - we have 52/24/7 ops govt affairs dept its called me and myself 
we will struggle in todays aviation market to find replacements among the 'next generation' ops bods - basic teachings nowadays swallowed up by slot managmenet and SRM's
we will struggle in todays aviation market to find replacements among the 'next generation' ops bods - basic teachings nowadays swallowed up by slot managmenet and SRM's
