comparison between military and civilian aircraft ops
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comparison between military and civilian aircraft ops
Need some help here guys. At the moment I'm a sergeant Flight Operations manager in the RAF, extremely experienced as the military goes, obviously not so in 'Civvie street', my limitations lie in a lack of knowledge of civil ac ops and the airline industry. Now then, in three years I reach my option and really want to pursue a career in civil aviation, I intend to attend an FAA Flight Dispatchers Course as I hope this will complement my military experience. My main concerns are age, I'll be 40 and I'll have been in the RAF 22 years by then, and pay. I know the pay is crap and I certainly don't expect to walk in on top dollar, however I won't work for peanuts either. Any of you Ops/Flight Dispatchers who are ex military and made the switch, or any dyed in the wool civil operators out there with worthwhile gen then I'd be very grateful. Lastly are the City and Guilds or NVQs worth doing or do employers look for experience and enthusiasm. Thanks team.
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Vipero - just what is your problem? The negative vibes are just too much. Get yourselve another line of work for all our sakes. 
Milops - I recall some years back someone from a similiar background as yourself working as a dispatcher. There biggest initial problem was adjusting to the way things were done. Very regimented in their ways, and lacked the flexibility civil aviation offers over mil. Regarding the C&G/NVQ options, have not come across an employer who puts much credience in them.
Good luck with the searches, and ignore people like Vipero.
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Milops - I recall some years back someone from a similiar background as yourself working as a dispatcher. There biggest initial problem was adjusting to the way things were done. Very regimented in their ways, and lacked the flexibility civil aviation offers over mil. Regarding the C&G/NVQ options, have not come across an employer who puts much credience in them.
Good luck with the searches, and ignore people like Vipero.
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MilOps..
I have friend who worked for the blue boys in ops, when he left the RAF he walked into a very good job at Gatwick with one of the majors in ground ops/dispach, I think he was earning about £24,000 P.A which I don't consider to be a bad wage. I can't really tell you much more as we lost touch some time ago but I'm sure your air force experience will really help you climb a few rungs of the ladder. I don't know if you read my "Whats my chances" thread but if you did you will know not to take any notice of tosspots like Vipero, the guy seems to enjoy making cynical and ****ty comments to chaps with a genuine interest "turkey!"
But at least it allows us to realise that despite our passion for aviation some idots do crop up in this career! Good luck and I'm sure you won't be short of offers!....................................................T ailwinds............TD2
I have friend who worked for the blue boys in ops, when he left the RAF he walked into a very good job at Gatwick with one of the majors in ground ops/dispach, I think he was earning about £24,000 P.A which I don't consider to be a bad wage. I can't really tell you much more as we lost touch some time ago but I'm sure your air force experience will really help you climb a few rungs of the ladder. I don't know if you read my "Whats my chances" thread but if you did you will know not to take any notice of tosspots like Vipero, the guy seems to enjoy making cynical and ****ty comments to chaps with a genuine interest "turkey!"
But at least it allows us to realise that despite our passion for aviation some idots do crop up in this career! Good luck and I'm sure you won't be short of offers!....................................................T ailwinds............TD2
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Mil Ops,
Firstly I will Echo TD2's statement, who's rattled your Vespa chain Vip ??? Your comments are unhelpful and damage your credibility on these pages.
MO, your experience is what is important, and these days a salary of £21,000 + is easily not out of the question. In my experience I have come across a lot of good ex RAFers in the corporate side of the business, in my opinion that is where you will find the best salaries and conditions/hours similar to you are acustomed to. On the subject of C+G etc, I for one do not consider it a massive advantage, and on interviewing have never taken it over genuine experience and practical skills.
Good luck on the D mob !!
Theodore G Roover
Just keep groooooovin
Firstly I will Echo TD2's statement, who's rattled your Vespa chain Vip ??? Your comments are unhelpful and damage your credibility on these pages.
MO, your experience is what is important, and these days a salary of £21,000 + is easily not out of the question. In my experience I have come across a lot of good ex RAFers in the corporate side of the business, in my opinion that is where you will find the best salaries and conditions/hours similar to you are acustomed to. On the subject of C+G etc, I for one do not consider it a massive advantage, and on interviewing have never taken it over genuine experience and practical skills.
Good luck on the D mob !!
Theodore G Roover
Just keep groooooovin
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MilOps
I've had loads of pals leave the mob and get decent aviation jobs. The image of a military bod being a regimented robot is crap. I've worked with the civvies - it's just the jargon and shaking the bosses hand instead of chopping him off. Apart from that the next civvy pilot you will meet will probably be ex-airforce or navy.
I've had loads of pals leave the mob and get decent aviation jobs. The image of a military bod being a regimented robot is crap. I've worked with the civvies - it's just the jargon and shaking the bosses hand instead of chopping him off. Apart from that the next civvy pilot you will meet will probably be ex-airforce or navy.
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Dear MilOps,
nothing against you, I just wanted to say that maybe after 22 years in the Air Force you can hardly find the same wage in civ aviation...
Ask people who's really working in this field and see. Fellas saying "I've seen once one finding a job paied ..." are giving (maybe) false expectations.
Repeat: general wages for ops staff are not as we all wanted they should be.
Ciao
Paolo
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Mil Ops - I'm Ex RAF AATC CPL - currently working as Flight Despatch / Load Controller at LGW. I think the C & G are worth doing for the CV but, not sure if FAA Dispatchers course is necessary.. I work for one of the Handling Agents rather than a specific airline.. we deal with plenty; but the pay is definately not so good as a civvy unless your prepared to do a lot of overtime. Even with plenty of Overtime - would just about about manage £23 - £24K. 
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Thanks everyone who responded with sensible answers. TD2 I did read your query and I for one applaude your determination to succeed in your dream, if it wasn't for ****ty eyesight I would be pawning my wife, dog and two cats to fly. Anyway in todays modern RAF overtime is a byword, I and my colleagues spend obscene amounts of time away defending uncle Tones policies, guard duty, orderly seargeant, blah, blah, blah. Furthermore the pay ain't that good if you consider what it takes and the time it takes to get there. I'm intreagued to discover however that C&Gs and NVQs are not that well received as the colleges will have you believe otherwise. Finally Vipero, I've been scanning these forum pages for a while now before getting involved myself and I feel compelled to comment that some of your rhetoric is becoming tiresome, if all you can do is be negative I suggest you go out and find yourself a good woman who can mother you and give you the attention you so obviously crave, along with a good bottle of Primitivo to strip the enamel off your teeth.
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Forget the C&G, as for the FAA dispatch licence it depends what you want. The current price for the dispatch licence is around £3000 plus some small change. A lot of money unless you can get the RAF to pay for some of it. Most of the classes and the written exam can be do in the UK, but the practical test still needs to be done in the USA.
The jobs you can expect vary quite a bit, but I have had one or two that pay a few pounds more because of the Dispatch Licence...
The jobs you can expect vary quite a bit, but I have had one or two that pay a few pounds more because of the Dispatch Licence...
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Milops
I am also an ex CPL AATC left on the last big push, now work with the mighty AN124 Ruslan, althought we do not do weight and balance (nearest I get is with my C172) we do get involved with payloads and distances we can go. I don't have any C&G's or dispatchers licence and find that in the UK if you can show the knowledge involved with the job concerned you got as good a chance as the next guy, we are on £21k here and a colleague has just left here to work with SITA in the nav/perf dept and will be on approx £28k so the work is out there and I find that some companies prefer ex mil...
Any way goodluck for the future matey!!
Il ne legitimi carborundum!!
BRGDS
VP8
I am also an ex CPL AATC left on the last big push, now work with the mighty AN124 Ruslan, althought we do not do weight and balance (nearest I get is with my C172) we do get involved with payloads and distances we can go. I don't have any C&G's or dispatchers licence and find that in the UK if you can show the knowledge involved with the job concerned you got as good a chance as the next guy, we are on £21k here and a colleague has just left here to work with SITA in the nav/perf dept and will be on approx £28k so the work is out there and I find that some companies prefer ex mil...
Any way goodluck for the future matey!!
Il ne legitimi carborundum!!
BRGDS
VP8
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Milops
hello mate i am ex AAC ops now working in civvy aviation,been out 3 years and i have been in civvy ops for 2.5 years.
I walked straight into a ops job when one became vacant and enjoying it.(most of the time)
Salary depends where in the country you wan't to work for and for who.
I am on 20k could be better but could be alot worse.
There is an ex RAF ops guy at universal ops in Stansted he might be able to help.
hello mate i am ex AAC ops now working in civvy aviation,been out 3 years and i have been in civvy ops for 2.5 years.
I walked straight into a ops job when one became vacant and enjoying it.(most of the time)
Salary depends where in the country you wan't to work for and for who.
I am on 20k could be better but could be alot worse.
There is an ex RAF ops guy at universal ops in Stansted he might be able to help.
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Thanks again every one. Sorry for the lack of replies but I've been overseas for a bit, my initial enquiry to this forum was made from a tent in a desert location. Anyway I'm home now and before my next trip away in support of Aunty Betties Finest (?) I'll start nosing around. With three yeasr to go I at least have some time on my hands to research. Anyway the RAF can pay for an FAA dispatchers licence as part of my resettlement! Vipero ol' boy, hows the hunt for a good woman coning along? On my way back to blighty the other day we stopped off at one of my favourite stomping grounds at Gioia Del Colle for a bit, ah memories!!
MilOps types just bide their time.......
MilOps types just bide their time.......