Op's / Dispatch, differences between FAR / JAR
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Op's / Dispatch, differences between FAR / JAR
Ladies and Gentlemen
im interested in learning your views ref the differences between the two systems of Airline Ops/ Dispatch operated by USA / most other countries.
Do u think the USA system is safer?? and why.
What flaws exist in the UK / IRISH systems where the Ops staff may have commercial control over a flight (ie will it operate or not), but are not responsible for the flight operation itself.
Are flight crew overburdened in the cockpit flying shorttime sectors in high density airspace?, could Ops people on the ground relieve some of this pressure.
Is there evidence of safety implications between the two systems?
Does anybody know the current state of affairs ref The mandatory licencing of Ops staff in Europe?.
Questions, questions...........
---------------------------------------------
Q. "So where do u work"
a. "Airline Ops dept."
Q. "oohhh...i see....so....What do u actually do????."
A. "Errmmmmm....well...u see...ehhh."
im interested in learning your views ref the differences between the two systems of Airline Ops/ Dispatch operated by USA / most other countries.
Do u think the USA system is safer?? and why.
What flaws exist in the UK / IRISH systems where the Ops staff may have commercial control over a flight (ie will it operate or not), but are not responsible for the flight operation itself.
Are flight crew overburdened in the cockpit flying shorttime sectors in high density airspace?, could Ops people on the ground relieve some of this pressure.
Is there evidence of safety implications between the two systems?
Does anybody know the current state of affairs ref The mandatory licencing of Ops staff in Europe?.
Questions, questions...........
---------------------------------------------
Q. "So where do u work"
a. "Airline Ops dept."
Q. "oohhh...i see....so....What do u actually do????."
A. "Errmmmmm....well...u see...ehhh."
Guest
Posts: n/a
This question has run for years.
Having worked in both systems I would say that on balance the FAA flight release/dispatch system offers aircrew much more support pre-flight and in the air.
The FAA system is ingrained in history and law so US crews, or other countries that follow suit, have aircrew who know the system and where the dispatcher fits in. Importantly also, is the Aircraft Dispatcher is licenced to the same written qualification as the pilot and requires re-current training to keep him current in all related subjects. Immediately they have credibility with their pilot colleages.
ICAO Annex recommend the licencing of Flight Operations personnel but it is a recommendation not a standard, regretably the UK has never adopted this, dispite the best efforts of the British Guild of Operations Officers back in the 1970 and 80's.
We in the UK suffer, and I speak in very general terms here, from the lack of a formal accreditation in flight ops studies. Simply, we need a formal qualifcation which sets the minimum standard for all personnel exercising operational control over a commercial operation.
It has nothing to do with removing a pilots authority over the operation of an aircraft but everything to do with supporting him in flight and offering ground based information which is not readily available in the cockpit, although in a few years that will change.
The exercise of operational control in a commercial sense should never pose a risk provided you are operating within the confines of the Ops Manual, not least of which the Commander of the flight has, after all, the responsbility to say no if in his/her opinon it does.
On the question of busy flight, perhaps our pilot colleages could answer that one.
Having worked in both systems I would say that on balance the FAA flight release/dispatch system offers aircrew much more support pre-flight and in the air.
The FAA system is ingrained in history and law so US crews, or other countries that follow suit, have aircrew who know the system and where the dispatcher fits in. Importantly also, is the Aircraft Dispatcher is licenced to the same written qualification as the pilot and requires re-current training to keep him current in all related subjects. Immediately they have credibility with their pilot colleages.
ICAO Annex recommend the licencing of Flight Operations personnel but it is a recommendation not a standard, regretably the UK has never adopted this, dispite the best efforts of the British Guild of Operations Officers back in the 1970 and 80's.
We in the UK suffer, and I speak in very general terms here, from the lack of a formal accreditation in flight ops studies. Simply, we need a formal qualifcation which sets the minimum standard for all personnel exercising operational control over a commercial operation.
It has nothing to do with removing a pilots authority over the operation of an aircraft but everything to do with supporting him in flight and offering ground based information which is not readily available in the cockpit, although in a few years that will change.
The exercise of operational control in a commercial sense should never pose a risk provided you are operating within the confines of the Ops Manual, not least of which the Commander of the flight has, after all, the responsbility to say no if in his/her opinon it does.
On the question of busy flight, perhaps our pilot colleages could answer that one.
Guest
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The JAA proposed system is a joke! I met Ops people unable to read a simple METAR, who ran a flight plan for crews on short check in (I mean the guys in the cockpit are certainly pros, but checking all paperwork, the aircraft and start-up within 30minutes is just out of the scope).
So, what happens up in the sky, when (at one unlucky time, you realize that the one and only alternate is below mins and your destination just fogged in?). Tough luck!
Germany, just to name one expamle, has acknowledged a formal traineeship for flight attendants (with a certification by the chamber of industry and commerce). On the other hand the GALDA and the VC are fighting hard to keep the FDB license alive (if JARs win, it will be gone).
Sure, companies will have to pay more for certified staff and since dispatchers (unfortunatly) still are the best kept secret, they are in the perfect spot for being scrapped for the sake of another Vice President position (as if most airlines didn't already have enough management!).
It is dreadful and sad to see professionalism in the ops/dispatch go down the tubes and sooner or later it will show in the safety records. I don't intend to say that the usual 'learning by doing' doesn't help to become professional, but you need a basis to work from (as do the cockpit crews).
Good there is always the 'human factor' in the cockpit to blame in case something goes wrong.
Cheers
fcit
So, what happens up in the sky, when (at one unlucky time, you realize that the one and only alternate is below mins and your destination just fogged in?). Tough luck!
Germany, just to name one expamle, has acknowledged a formal traineeship for flight attendants (with a certification by the chamber of industry and commerce). On the other hand the GALDA and the VC are fighting hard to keep the FDB license alive (if JARs win, it will be gone).
Sure, companies will have to pay more for certified staff and since dispatchers (unfortunatly) still are the best kept secret, they are in the perfect spot for being scrapped for the sake of another Vice President position (as if most airlines didn't already have enough management!).
It is dreadful and sad to see professionalism in the ops/dispatch go down the tubes and sooner or later it will show in the safety records. I don't intend to say that the usual 'learning by doing' doesn't help to become professional, but you need a basis to work from (as do the cockpit crews).
Good there is always the 'human factor' in the cockpit to blame in case something goes wrong.
Cheers
fcit
Guest
Posts: n/a
It's a great idea and high time it was made compulsary. The EU needs to get its collective finger out and do something about it rather than pontificating over the shape of bannanas etc..
However, the airlines won't buy it, particularly in the UK because it will inevitably mean higher salaries for professionally qualified Ops Staff. It will bring to an end the situation that was reported to me recently, an airline at STN advertising for an Ops Officer.. salary £9500 per year. I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!
(I am willing to be corrected on this one as its more a school leavers Ops Asst wage, but you see my point?)
As long as bean counters run airlines there will be severe resistance to professionally qualified Ops Staff. I say "professionally qualified" rather than "professional" because the vast majority of us are extremely professional, just not recognised as such.
Doc C
However, the airlines won't buy it, particularly in the UK because it will inevitably mean higher salaries for professionally qualified Ops Staff. It will bring to an end the situation that was reported to me recently, an airline at STN advertising for an Ops Officer.. salary £9500 per year. I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!
(I am willing to be corrected on this one as its more a school leavers Ops Asst wage, but you see my point?)
As long as bean counters run airlines there will be severe resistance to professionally qualified Ops Staff. I say "professionally qualified" rather than "professional" because the vast majority of us are extremely professional, just not recognised as such.
Doc C
