Airport and runway analysis services
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Fenton,Mich.
Airport and runway analysis services
Can anyone help me find names of companies that provide runway analysis information to flight crews and dispatch personel for operating B737 aircraft?. .I know of only one,Jeppesen.I am trying to compare services to theirs for our operation.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
I wouldn't advise Flygprestanda. They're cr@pp. Very amateuristic company and no match for Jeppesen. Flygprestanda only work office hours and have a website for use if you need something during evenings, nights and weekends. The problem is that the website never works for anything other than 1 runway, in 1 config, at 1 airport at the time. And even then it takes ages. And when you need it, Fridaynight at 19:00 for departure the same evening, for somewhere you've never been before, you will want more than one runway and config. And there will be no-one to help you. And if the website crashes, there is no support for that either until 09:00 the next morning. Oh no, it will be Saturday, so it will have to wait until next Monday. By that time the Chief pilot will have become very nervous and decide to scrap this extra-revenue charter. Bye bye bonus...... . . . <small>[ 11 March 2002, 21:55: Message edited by: Deep Float ]</small>
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Why not Navtech. They worked ok for us. We operate the 747.. .. .<a href="http://www.navtechinc.com/Products/V1Plus.htm" target="_blank">http://www.navtechinc.com/Products/V1Plus.htm</a>. .. .<a href="http://www.navtechinc.com/Products/COMRAD.htm" target="_blank">http://www.navtechinc.com/Products/COMRAD.htm</a>
Fleet Manager
Joined: Apr 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,447
Likes: 310
From: various places .....
A few thoughts, chaps. .. .(a) any fool can run a computer program with minimal training. .. .(b) any fool with a bit more training can do the AFM analysis graphically. .. .(c) none of it is much use unless the obstacle data is sound .. this is a major problem. For those who would subcontract the work, it might be prudent to invigilate just what the contractor does in this regard ... are you happy with the approach taken ? .. where does the data come from ? ... what is done to check for system errors ? ... can you defend it in court after the accident ? ... does it make sense operationally ?. .. .(d) what are you doing about on-going monitoring of obstacle changes external to the airport operator's reporting ? .. remembering that the takeoff goes out a LONG way .... does your contractor do an acceptable job in this regard ?. .. .(e) does the contractor (or, indeed, the in-house group) either include, or seek guidance from, appropriate pilot people ? .. so that the escape procedures make sense from the viewpoint of pilot workload and sensible cockpit operational management ?. .. .(e) is the turn around adequate for the need ? .. this is ALWAYS a problem, potential or real, with contracted support .. and that applies even with the best intentions and efforts by the contracting organisation.. .. .... but the main concern is ... if it all turns to custard .... who gets the blame ?
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Over here...
We use Flygprestanda exclusively, and to be honest we've never had any problems with their service - even via the internet we have access to ALL configs and runways - no probs! - True they work office hours, but if there is anything unusual, as long as you send them an e-mail/fax, they do what they can...
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver, BC.
John_T, you make a very good point and one which is sound advice to all operators. I recall a . .case where the emergency turn procedure was way off the mark, make sure your NAv section is checking this. It's your responsibility, not the suppliers.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Th great white North
Navtech has comprehensive capabilities and can offer runway analysis in a number of methods including paper, digital (.pdf), integrated to flight plan and stand-alone application. Coverage for data is worldwide, support truly 24/7 and they have performance engineers on staff for the engine-out turns that were earlier discussed.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: UK
Try BradAir Aviation Consultancy Ltd contact details at www.bradair.com
They have developed an add -on (really more of a wrap around) program for the B737 Boeing Mk7J32 RTOW performance program, so you can rapidly create your own RTOW pages.
It quickly creates the input files for, and runs the Mk7J32 performance program. It then performs a full analysis of the output from the Mk7J32 and prepares a printout table (page) in aircrew friendly format for the flight deck RTOW manuals, for both normal and improved climb speed. Also works with contaminated runway data. Does single runway, single airport or multiple airports automatically.
Give them a call - tel +44 (0)115 921 7696. They are a UK company and I understand that they have a demo cd which explain how it works. It has been used in a major UK airline for several years on the B737 as well as a similar version for the Fokker 100 / 70. Also available is an analysis / printout version for outputs from Airbus's WINPEP program the A320 / A321 / A330.
Same company also have a PC version of a full commercial airline loadsheet (weight and balance) program called QUICKLOAD. I've seen it in operation, great tool when the main weight and balance computer fails - instead of taking 10 - 15 minutes writing a manual loadsheet, their program can print a loadsheet in less than 2 minutes.
Good luck with your search.
They have developed an add -on (really more of a wrap around) program for the B737 Boeing Mk7J32 RTOW performance program, so you can rapidly create your own RTOW pages.
It quickly creates the input files for, and runs the Mk7J32 performance program. It then performs a full analysis of the output from the Mk7J32 and prepares a printout table (page) in aircrew friendly format for the flight deck RTOW manuals, for both normal and improved climb speed. Also works with contaminated runway data. Does single runway, single airport or multiple airports automatically.
Give them a call - tel +44 (0)115 921 7696. They are a UK company and I understand that they have a demo cd which explain how it works. It has been used in a major UK airline for several years on the B737 as well as a similar version for the Fokker 100 / 70. Also available is an analysis / printout version for outputs from Airbus's WINPEP program the A320 / A321 / A330.
Same company also have a PC version of a full commercial airline loadsheet (weight and balance) program called QUICKLOAD. I've seen it in operation, great tool when the main weight and balance computer fails - instead of taking 10 - 15 minutes writing a manual loadsheet, their program can print a loadsheet in less than 2 minutes.
Good luck with your search.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: USA
AeroDataUSA
One system I've used at several airlines, from D328s to B757s is called Aerodata.
It interfaces with your flight planning system, and calculates from the flow equations in the AFM the most exact weights available, and it also has a W&B system as well.
It isnt cheap - they maintain the performances and obstacle databases. Includes engine-out departure procedures for those airports where required. It calculates under US FAR 25 however, I dont know if it does the JAR rules.
PM me if youd like more details - I have a PDF from them somewhere on here.
It interfaces with your flight planning system, and calculates from the flow equations in the AFM the most exact weights available, and it also has a W&B system as well.
It isnt cheap - they maintain the performances and obstacle databases. Includes engine-out departure procedures for those airports where required. It calculates under US FAR 25 however, I dont know if it does the JAR rules.
PM me if youd like more details - I have a PDF from them somewhere on here.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: S.E England
On the subject of Flygprestanda.
I too have never had any problems with them. We use the internet access exsclusively and have never experienced the problems that one poster here complained of.
You get what you pay for and there are better services with better support but they are more expensive.
By the way we have been to Flygprestanda and audited all procedures used to produce the runway data including obstacle charts etc. In fact they are due another one soon.
In these days of SMS any quality department would be well advised to be auditing all third party suppliers.
I too have never had any problems with them. We use the internet access exsclusively and have never experienced the problems that one poster here complained of.
You get what you pay for and there are better services with better support but they are more expensive.
By the way we have been to Flygprestanda and audited all procedures used to produce the runway data including obstacle charts etc. In fact they are due another one soon.
In these days of SMS any quality department would be well advised to be auditing all third party suppliers.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
We used to use Flygp for all our perf but they were pretty expensive so now do most perf in house with obs data from the AIP, SITA, Jepps OpsData etc. Noticed that Flygp seemed to have a policy of putting in virtual obstacles (what are they!?!) for some rwy departures and also when we compared actual obs from our own a/d surveys with flygp obs, they sometimes didn't match up.
Flygp also used to do a notam / rwy watch service (which we still have and pay for), but for the last few months we've not recieved any rwy notam updates at all - instead I have to read all our destinations notams daily to keep on the ball... nice!
Flygp also used to do a notam / rwy watch service (which we still have and pay for), but for the last few months we've not recieved any rwy notam updates at all - instead I have to read all our destinations notams daily to keep on the ball... nice!
