Pushback in Visual
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AHO - LIEA / Sassari
Age: 37
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Pushback in Visual
Hi, I am an Ramp agent in AHO - LIEA airport and i am also a pushback headset man.
In case of Lightning, Thunderstorm, strong rain, strong wind, Headset not working and other particular cases, the pushback do with hand signals between Headset man and Cockpit is permitted?
During the pushback qualification course our instructor has prohibited to us to do it because it has been explained that it would go against ICAO, EASA, JAR OPS ecc. ecc.norms because a "continuous audio contact" must be held with the cabin.
In case of lack of headset quite it has advised to us to use a cellular phone with the CPT one in order to hold the audio contact with the cabin. He has made one demonstration of pushback with a cellular phone with an airplane of its company.
Who has shown us that procedure is an instructor and also inspector for the airport safety. He supports that it always must have an audio contact with the cockpit, cellular comprised because during the push and start up pilots do not watch other that the instrumentation, and therefore in case of danger and interruption of start up the only way in order to communicate with the pilots is with an audio contact.
But I hardship to believe that in some airports they use the cellular phone for this maneuver... is an instructor a little particular...
I do this question because on several companies handbook (Ryanair comprised) the pushback do with hand signals is contemplated in the case it was not possible to use the headsets. Alitalia previews push back with headsets but not during the presence of lightnings on the field or the temporary undisponibilit of the same ones.
For some types of aircraft, always in AZ, (as an example the B767) is forbidden the push back with the passengers on board without headset.
I have another question... If some chose happen during the start up as an example a tailpipe firing how i signal to the Captain?? I do only the sign to cutoff the engine in flames? (hand that cuts the throat)
This morning with all the supervisors and all the ramp agents we have take the IATA Airport Handling Manual in order to try explanations but only the visual communications between Headset man and Tug Driver/Wingman are specified. No citation exist that regards hand signals between Headset man and Cockpit but at the same time nothing that prohibits the visual communications between Cockpit and Ground.
The only operation that is specified where is possible to use handsignals between Ground and Cockpit is the start up but I repeat is not specified nothing with regard the PushBack...
This is some official data:
1) JAR-OPS 1.308 Push back and Towing
a) The operator shall ensure that all push back and towing procedures comply with appropriate aviation standards and procedures.
Now we take the aviation standards...
2) ICAO Annex 2 - Rules of the air - Appendix I - Signals
5. MARSHALLING SIGNALS
5.1 From a signalman to an aircraft
Note 1.— These signals are designed for use by the signalman, with hands illuminated as necessary to facilitate observation by the pilot, and facing the aircraft in a position:
a) for fixed-wing aircraft, on left side of aircraft, where best seen by the pilot; and
b) for helicopters, where the signalman can best be seen by the pilot.
[...]
5.3 Technical/servicing communication signals
5.3.1 Manual signals shall only be used when verbal communication is not possible with respect to technical/servicing communication signals.
5.3.2 Signalmen shall ensure that an acknowledgement is received from the flight crew with respect to technical/servicing communication signals.
Note.— The technical/servicing communication signals are included in Appendix 1 to standardize the use of hand signals used to communicate to flight crews during the aircraft movement process that relate to servicing or handling functions.
But this notice doesn't specify that handsignals can be used for the pushback...
ENAC, EASA, JAA, ICAO, IATA give us a signs!!!
In case of Lightning, Thunderstorm, strong rain, strong wind, Headset not working and other particular cases, the pushback do with hand signals between Headset man and Cockpit is permitted?
During the pushback qualification course our instructor has prohibited to us to do it because it has been explained that it would go against ICAO, EASA, JAR OPS ecc. ecc.norms because a "continuous audio contact" must be held with the cabin.
In case of lack of headset quite it has advised to us to use a cellular phone with the CPT one in order to hold the audio contact with the cabin. He has made one demonstration of pushback with a cellular phone with an airplane of its company.
Who has shown us that procedure is an instructor and also inspector for the airport safety. He supports that it always must have an audio contact with the cockpit, cellular comprised because during the push and start up pilots do not watch other that the instrumentation, and therefore in case of danger and interruption of start up the only way in order to communicate with the pilots is with an audio contact.
But I hardship to believe that in some airports they use the cellular phone for this maneuver... is an instructor a little particular...
I do this question because on several companies handbook (Ryanair comprised) the pushback do with hand signals is contemplated in the case it was not possible to use the headsets. Alitalia previews push back with headsets but not during the presence of lightnings on the field or the temporary undisponibilit of the same ones.
For some types of aircraft, always in AZ, (as an example the B767) is forbidden the push back with the passengers on board without headset.
I have another question... If some chose happen during the start up as an example a tailpipe firing how i signal to the Captain?? I do only the sign to cutoff the engine in flames? (hand that cuts the throat)
This morning with all the supervisors and all the ramp agents we have take the IATA Airport Handling Manual in order to try explanations but only the visual communications between Headset man and Tug Driver/Wingman are specified. No citation exist that regards hand signals between Headset man and Cockpit but at the same time nothing that prohibits the visual communications between Cockpit and Ground.
The only operation that is specified where is possible to use handsignals between Ground and Cockpit is the start up but I repeat is not specified nothing with regard the PushBack...
This is some official data:
1) JAR-OPS 1.308 Push back and Towing
a) The operator shall ensure that all push back and towing procedures comply with appropriate aviation standards and procedures.
Now we take the aviation standards...
2) ICAO Annex 2 - Rules of the air - Appendix I - Signals
5. MARSHALLING SIGNALS
5.1 From a signalman to an aircraft
Note 1.— These signals are designed for use by the signalman, with hands illuminated as necessary to facilitate observation by the pilot, and facing the aircraft in a position:
a) for fixed-wing aircraft, on left side of aircraft, where best seen by the pilot; and
b) for helicopters, where the signalman can best be seen by the pilot.
[...]
5.3 Technical/servicing communication signals
5.3.1 Manual signals shall only be used when verbal communication is not possible with respect to technical/servicing communication signals.
5.3.2 Signalmen shall ensure that an acknowledgement is received from the flight crew with respect to technical/servicing communication signals.
Note.— The technical/servicing communication signals are included in Appendix 1 to standardize the use of hand signals used to communicate to flight crews during the aircraft movement process that relate to servicing or handling functions.
But this notice doesn't specify that handsignals can be used for the pushback...
ENAC, EASA, JAA, ICAO, IATA give us a signs!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I ALWAYS use hand signals during lighting storms. Should the aircraft get struck by lightning the shortest route to ground is via the headset through the headset person. The signal for engine fire is to hold one hand up illustrating the engine number, then make a horizontal figure 8 on your chest.
Obviously it is preferable by all parties to use a headset however in all cases this is not possible, but as long as both parties know and understand the signals/procedures they can be carried out safely.
I thought it was against regulations to use cellphones airside on the ramp?
Obviously it is preferable by all parties to use a headset however in all cases this is not possible, but as long as both parties know and understand the signals/procedures they can be carried out safely.
I thought it was against regulations to use cellphones airside on the ramp?
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I always use hand signals for a pushback whenever there is a thunderstorm warning in place.
Using a mobile phone for audible contact during push back is madness, and then you can’t be wearing the one very important item of personal protection equipment, your ear defenders!
So picture this; one hand holding mobile phone, the other hand for hand signal to pushback crew, while trying to cover your other ear with your shoulder and shouting down a phone that you can’t hear the pilot over the two or more engines.
Standard hand signals are to be used by all in the event that the primary method is either unsafe or unserviceable.
bfsalphaone
Using a mobile phone for audible contact during push back is madness, and then you can’t be wearing the one very important item of personal protection equipment, your ear defenders!
So picture this; one hand holding mobile phone, the other hand for hand signal to pushback crew, while trying to cover your other ear with your shoulder and shouting down a phone that you can’t hear the pilot over the two or more engines.
Standard hand signals are to be used by all in the event that the primary method is either unsafe or unserviceable.
bfsalphaone
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IATA AHM630 6.7.2 is recommended practice.
AHM 631 gives all the hand signals including fire.
Never ever be connected to an aircraft by a headset during a lightning storm.
No OTP critieria should over-ride the safety of the ground crew.
Stay safe, not fried.
There was a ramp worker killed in S America a few years ago when his equipment tug was struck by lightning and he was fried in his seat. Not pleasant but a good reminder to take your crew off the ramp if lightning is near your airfield.
AHM 631 gives all the hand signals including fire.
Never ever be connected to an aircraft by a headset during a lightning storm.
No OTP critieria should over-ride the safety of the ground crew.
Stay safe, not fried.
There was a ramp worker killed in S America a few years ago when his equipment tug was struck by lightning and he was fried in his seat. Not pleasant but a good reminder to take your crew off the ramp if lightning is near your airfield.
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flyboy543, I think you will find that the captain wont actually be able to see your "clear" handsignal for a fire if you do it in front of your chest.
Handsignals should be clearly seen by keeping your arms / hands away from your body so even at dusk your outline is clear.
Handsignals should be clearly seen by keeping your arms / hands away from your body so even at dusk your outline is clear.
