Virgin towing A/C fuel savings

[Who'stheDaddy]

Perhaps this may go to another section / or has someone written about this- Mods???
I would just like to know if what the opinion is on Virgin towing A/C to 'starting grids' at LHR.

Is this realistic or just spin in an attempt to look green.
Can the ground agent really have equipment / staff available to be back and forth iso push back and move on to the next A/C?
Wouldnt these Grid stands need some sort of ground powe?
Space at LHR, where is this likely to be if the is a queue, do the A/C sit on these stands and then get slotted in somewhere? How does this affect other carriers not involved in this scheme

Any thoughts?

[srs what?]

It's only a trial to test the viability of the project and analyse the savings etc.

The handling agents don't at present have the resources for it to be launched immediately but as I said there is no need for it at present and no ground power is required as the aicraft have an APU. In the event of an inop APU then an on stand engine start would have to be carried out as normal.

I should point out the trial isn't just a Virgin project it is being run along with BAA and NATS.

[jumpseater]

Having done environmental work in the past the idea seems completely viable. The greatest amount of pollution around an airfield is from ground based operations, taxiing, road vehicles etc. It will have a beneficial impact. How that stacks up with having sufficient 'push back' staff/tugs and the cost of those too, to implement it somewhere like Heathrow remains to be seen. Another issue is in LVP's, it will make it very interesting for ATC to resolve those issues if it became standard practise. I imagine it would quickly revert to powered operations to become manageable.
The other benefit no one seems to have latched onto is the potential reduction of noise too. It would make a considerable contribution to the local enviroment to cut out a significant amount of the taxiing noise.

[Leezyjet]

Originally Posted by Who'stheDaddy

Space at LHR, where is this likely to be if the is a queue, do the A/C sit on these stands and then get slotted in somewhere? How does this affect other carriers not involved in this scheme
Any thoughts?

If there is a queue (which is more often than not at LHR), then it probably won't make much difference to taxi times. I guess they would tow the a/c to the back of the queue, stop for a couple of minutes to disconnect the tug and start up, then off you go.

The process I imagine would be similer to the way they de-ice on the continent - having a de-ice area on a taxiway just before the end of the runway so the a/c pull up, get de-iced then off they go. (wish BAA would introduce that at LHR as well - would save loads of hassle with hold over times when its busy - but thats another thread !!).

I think the idea is also to challenge the thinking behind current operations that are the "norm" just because thats the way it has always been done and try and introduce a new way of thinking about the ground operations as a whole in the same way that the STARS project (is that the correct name - I can't remember) is looking to eventually get rid of airways and allowing the a/c to navigate directly from A-B which has been trialled on the Pacific routes over the last few years.

Things like this have to be tried to see if they work otherwise we would never progress. If it doesn't work, then at least we can say we tried and then back to the drawing board to find another solution.

I am however waiting for all the tree huggers to start campaigning for the mass slaughter of cows - they are responsible for more global warming than air travel

[BIGBATMAN]

I would say that BAA and ATC have been sucked into it as its bad press not to go along with virgins idea and at least try it,

On the first test at heathrow, it was due to be a 1000 departure, it then got pushed back to a 1500 departure i wonder why,??

The next thing is request for engineers and a air start out to the hold no doubt.

They would need more staff, more tugs, more time, and no doubt on busy days aircraft taxiing behind the towing aircraft and would use more fuel??.

Best to give it a go i guess it may work,

[Leezyjet]

The next thing is request for engineers and a air start out to the hold no doubt.

Would only be done on a/c with fully servicable APU, and Engineers do the headset anyway. Although if the trials are succesful and it does become the "norm" then there is no reason why they couldn't have ASU's out at the starting grid just incase - like having the de-icing rigs out on the de-ice pad.

They would need more staff, more tugs, more time, and no doubt on busy days aircraft taxiing behind the towing aircraft and would use more fuel??.

If it becomes the "norm" then everyone would be towing out, and the current plan is to use TBL tugs only as they can tow faster to minimise delays.
At a station like LHR, the time differences are probably not going to be noticable anyway as the queues are normally so long. It will just mean a/c spending less time sitting in the queues pumping out fumes into the atmosphere.