Who are VS kidding ?
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Ask the tower !
Who are VS kidding ?
Virgin Atlantic
SENIOR ROSTERING OFFICER
CRAWLEY, WEST SUSSEX
£20000-£21500 + AIRLINE BENEFITS
Surely not. £21.5k for a senior position, who in their right mind would apply
SENIOR ROSTERING OFFICER
CRAWLEY, WEST SUSSEX
£20000-£21500 + AIRLINE BENEFITS
Surely not. £21.5k for a senior position, who in their right mind would apply
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From: The Deep South
so who pays for your accomodation in these glamourous locations you can to on your free flights ?
But then if you live at home with mum & Dad or have family based there it is an attractive prospect, then there are the Crews !!!!!!!!!!
But then if you live at home with mum & Dad or have family based there it is an attractive prospect, then there are the Crews !!!!!!!!!!
Thread Starter
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From: Ask the tower !
Dunhovrin think you'll be waiting a bit longer !!
If a Senior Rostering Officer's wage is this, then what do the OPS/CREWING
staff get
Rostering at senior level must surely draw in a salary in the region of £28k - £30k, especially with a large company. I think the entry level salary in OPS in Tango Land pays more than VS 
If a Senior Rostering Officer's wage is this, then what do the OPS/CREWING
staff get
Rostering at senior level must surely draw in a salary in the region of £28k - £30k, especially with a large company. I think the entry level salary in OPS in Tango Land pays more than VS
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From: A DIFFERENT PLANNET
Spoke to a few Ops Managers/Directors, who bemoan the fact they cant attract quality ops/crewing guys, I ask what are they paying, they have come back with 18-23k I point out thats the problem, they then say "Thats what I can pay"
Like everything in life you get what you pay for.
It also seem those companies willing to pay for quality, also value and invest more in their people
Like everything in life you get what you pay for.
It also seem those companies willing to pay for quality, also value and invest more in their people
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From: The Jack Fairman
Hold on a min, I dont work in ops, but I have hired and fired a few in my time, and i'm often at Virgin HQ and its the same faces you see year in year out, so they must be doing something right !!
Isn't going to work for Virgin a bit like the civil service, crap money to start with, but good pension/ leave etc, and a defined structure of pay increases year on year.
I'm sure anyone who has 10 years service is on a good screw, maybe there are just a few too many people floating from company to company hoping the grass is always greener.
Bet they still get an AWFUL lot of applicants, particularly from Eastern European airlines
Isn't going to work for Virgin a bit like the civil service, crap money to start with, but good pension/ leave etc, and a defined structure of pay increases year on year.
I'm sure anyone who has 10 years service is on a good screw, maybe there are just a few too many people floating from company to company hoping the grass is always greener.
Bet they still get an AWFUL lot of applicants, particularly from Eastern European airlines
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From: Cloud 9
EI-CGO,
But in aviation how many airlines will still be around when one become 65 to draw that pension?
Airlines, in general, tend to attract locals from the local catchment area, the LGW area is extremely expensive to buy property and live around thus whilst Emerald may have got away with cr@p salaries in the LPL area, often taking staff with no previous experience, it doesn't work that way when the airline is in the major league and with it's HQ in an expensive area with loads of local competition prepared to pay more.
But in aviation how many airlines will still be around when one become 65 to draw that pension?
Airlines, in general, tend to attract locals from the local catchment area, the LGW area is extremely expensive to buy property and live around thus whilst Emerald may have got away with cr@p salaries in the LPL area, often taking staff with no previous experience, it doesn't work that way when the airline is in the major league and with it's HQ in an expensive area with loads of local competition prepared to pay more.
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From: Ask the tower !
Question is, why did (is) the former Senior Rostering Officer leaving their post?
The salary for this job is quite frankly pants. The level of responsibility is high. Do VS not realise this? I'm sure they do. I'm also sure they think (like lots of airlines) that computer software will one day take over various roles in the Ground Ops environment. In reality, this will never happen. Computers are only as good as the data entered in the first place.
As Phil Fogg has stated, property is expensive in the LGW area. I know that full well. I am shocked as to what £600 a month will get me in terms of rent. Based on the VS salary, that £600 is half of the monthly take home pay. So for those managers at VS, how do you expect someone to live on less than £600 a month
Airlines these days are starting to cut costs, which in itself is no bad thing. In the long term, by cutting salaries, they cut the level of experience that is required and essential to maintaining an efficient Ground Ops Department.
Maybe now the likes of VS can recruit all them students who got (allegedly) A's in their exams. They are obviously very bright (
) and would jump at a salary of £21.5k 
The rant, for now, is over
The salary for this job is quite frankly pants. The level of responsibility is high. Do VS not realise this? I'm sure they do. I'm also sure they think (like lots of airlines) that computer software will one day take over various roles in the Ground Ops environment. In reality, this will never happen. Computers are only as good as the data entered in the first place.
As Phil Fogg has stated, property is expensive in the LGW area. I know that full well. I am shocked as to what £600 a month will get me in terms of rent. Based on the VS salary, that £600 is half of the monthly take home pay. So for those managers at VS, how do you expect someone to live on less than £600 a month
Airlines these days are starting to cut costs, which in itself is no bad thing. In the long term, by cutting salaries, they cut the level of experience that is required and essential to maintaining an efficient Ground Ops Department.
Maybe now the likes of VS can recruit all them students who got (allegedly) A's in their exams. They are obviously very bright (
) and would jump at a salary of £21.5k The rant, for now, is over
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From: sussex
Originally Posted by Mr Angry from Purley
Yeah and even worse they got some seaside seaweed Brighton and Hove Albion Supporters working there. Up the Palace 
Not quite sure that this was the subject of the thread but ... to the best of my knowledge there are no BHA in Rostering (they are well represented elsewhere however). My spies tell me that there are only two footballing "types" in the department. One follows that well known M25 side MUFC whilst the other suffers a similar ailment to yourself
18/10/2005
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: London
Talent Should be rewarded
Unless Virgin have changed they use SBS as their Crewing System.
However regardless of the level of automation producing a legal roster (or range of Rosters) is neither here or there. A 'talented' (you either have that sort of mind,or not. In my case NOT) Rostering Officer can turn a legal computer produced roster in to a much better product. One that is not only legal, but is produces better crew utilisation, but still results in less aggro from crews.
Trying to put a tangible value on the difference between a Roster produced by a talented Rostering Officer assisted by a good computer system against a less able computer/person product, is a mind bending exercise, but it can be done given a lot of time and on the two occasions I had to go through that exercise (assisted by highly experienced crewing experts) there were significant cost benefits.
So if an Airline wants to attract a Talented Senior Rostering Officer, then they should be prepared to pay for it as the benifit will outweigh the higher salary.
Unfortunately Crewing positions (not just Rostering) are often undervalued and yet Airlines still seem to attract and keep talented staff in these functions.
Maybe because the staff themselves undervalue their own god given talent?
Back to VS:
Whilst Virgin are noted for their low staff turnover, they also tend to promote from internally if possible, so I find it strange that they are advertising for a Senior Position (at a low salary) rather than for a Rostering Officer (or even Trainee). Another little mystery!
However regardless of the level of automation producing a legal roster (or range of Rosters) is neither here or there. A 'talented' (you either have that sort of mind,or not. In my case NOT) Rostering Officer can turn a legal computer produced roster in to a much better product. One that is not only legal, but is produces better crew utilisation, but still results in less aggro from crews.
Trying to put a tangible value on the difference between a Roster produced by a talented Rostering Officer assisted by a good computer system against a less able computer/person product, is a mind bending exercise, but it can be done given a lot of time and on the two occasions I had to go through that exercise (assisted by highly experienced crewing experts) there were significant cost benefits.
So if an Airline wants to attract a Talented Senior Rostering Officer, then they should be prepared to pay for it as the benifit will outweigh the higher salary.
Unfortunately Crewing positions (not just Rostering) are often undervalued and yet Airlines still seem to attract and keep talented staff in these functions.
Maybe because the staff themselves undervalue their own god given talent?
Back to VS:
Whilst Virgin are noted for their low staff turnover, they also tend to promote from internally if possible, so I find it strange that they are advertising for a Senior Position (at a low salary) rather than for a Rostering Officer (or even Trainee). Another little mystery!
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: UK / UAE
Couldn't agree more...
Originally Posted by Mr Angry from Purley
Filthy
ok i used the word Rostering lightly, said chap was in CC rostering but me thinks he's more into rostering systems now?.
Still can't believe they beat us at the Palace last year
ok i used the word Rostering lightly, said chap was in CC rostering but me thinks he's more into rostering systems now?.
Still can't believe they beat us at the Palace last year
Back to the original post though. Financially it seems pretty derogatory what's on offer, and would be interested to discover the calibre of candidate who will apply.
This'll seem a pretty sweeping statement, but I believe the industry in general is attempting to squeeze too much, both financially and from the work undertaken aspect, from all areas. Look at the BA and BMI flight deck issues, Cabin Crew duties now including more than was once expected, to name but two areas, and I think this VS advert is another example of the bean counters attempting to reduce the financial bottom line further.
This can only be to the detriment of the VS department in question, and that of the crews, in my opinion.
Now then I'm off to work soon. Has anyone seen that broom
that my boss asked me to bring in.....
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From: South of the River
Originally Posted by Mr Angry from Purley
Yeah and even worse they got some seaside seaweed Brighton and Hove Albion Supporters working there. Up the Palace
Dear Mr Angry from Purley
As an ex Virgin myself , the money that they pay will probably never match what it is possible to earn elsewhere on the Industrial estate, but they do maybe offer a better long term career , as we all know this industry is always up and down.Funny how Airlines are always keen to pay top dollar for someone who works in Marketing etc but a decent Rosterer or Crewing Bod will save you thousands over a year, no not a chance.
I believe that they maybe trying to find someone to slide in and provide a seamless transition to produce the least distruption for the drivers,hence why advertising for Senior Rostering Officers.
With regard to the "Seagull" you mention , despite this he is a top bloke, and although he hasn't yet discovered the dark side like me , maybe he will one day !!
Tell me are you located in the East Midlands ?
May the farce be with you
Daft Wader