LGW Virgin contract
With MY reputation?
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Leezyjet (and a few others I think)
I couldn't agree more with your comments regarding the structure of VS LHR and the training provided by them.
I spent 6 months working as a Traffic Officer there a couple of years ago, and I found it incredible that as a Dispatcher I was being dictated to by a Passenger Services Supervisor who (through no fault of their own) had absolutely no concept of the job I was carrying out. (There aren't a great deal of PHU staff who are aware of the finer points of Weight and Balance for a 744/343 etc).
I regularly challenged and questioned the fact that we were under PHU and not Ops control, only to be seen by some as the "new boy trouble-causer"(not the case at all)!
As you can probably appreciate, this is the main reason for the shortness of my stay at VS LHR.
I am not at all surprised to learn that some other familiar faces have since left, presumably for reasons much the same as mine.
I felt that with the wealth of knowledge and experience in the Department there were the makings of an impressive operation, but unfortunately one which was never given the chance to prove itself.
As regards the training, the bulk of staff from outside the airline have already a good grounding in W+B,Dispatch etc, but the sooner the VS Training Dept stops being an extension of the GHI/Aviance old-boy-jobs-for-the-boys network then the sooner it can become a credible part of an otherwise very credible airline
Cat amongst the pigeons time,
Regards,
Phoenix
OTV,
Not heard anything definite but I would be as interested as you to find out, especially in light of the new Handling Agent at LGW.
Watch this space...
PHX
I couldn't agree more with your comments regarding the structure of VS LHR and the training provided by them.
I spent 6 months working as a Traffic Officer there a couple of years ago, and I found it incredible that as a Dispatcher I was being dictated to by a Passenger Services Supervisor who (through no fault of their own) had absolutely no concept of the job I was carrying out. (There aren't a great deal of PHU staff who are aware of the finer points of Weight and Balance for a 744/343 etc).
I regularly challenged and questioned the fact that we were under PHU and not Ops control, only to be seen by some as the "new boy trouble-causer"(not the case at all)!
As you can probably appreciate, this is the main reason for the shortness of my stay at VS LHR.
I am not at all surprised to learn that some other familiar faces have since left, presumably for reasons much the same as mine.
I felt that with the wealth of knowledge and experience in the Department there were the makings of an impressive operation, but unfortunately one which was never given the chance to prove itself.
As regards the training, the bulk of staff from outside the airline have already a good grounding in W+B,Dispatch etc, but the sooner the VS Training Dept stops being an extension of the GHI/Aviance old-boy-jobs-for-the-boys network then the sooner it can become a credible part of an otherwise very credible airline
Cat amongst the pigeons time,
Regards,
Phoenix
OTV,
Not heard anything definite but I would be as interested as you to find out, especially in light of the new Handling Agent at LGW.
Watch this space...
PHX
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Phoenix
1)When were you at VS...around 2000/01?
2)If so,did I know you?
3)If so,what u up to now?
4)If we were there at the same time,how could you have been the "new boy trouble causer"....when that was clearly me?!!
Few old faces left there but not many.I left for the same reason as you...sick of arguing with people about why we should have been under Ops.
Cheers
777
1)When were you at VS...around 2000/01?
2)If so,did I know you?
3)If so,what u up to now?
4)If we were there at the same time,how could you have been the "new boy trouble causer"....when that was clearly me?!!
Few old faces left there but not many.I left for the same reason as you...sick of arguing with people about why we should have been under Ops.
Cheers
777
Join Date: Jan 2004
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CLP
Hey Leezyjet and all other sad traffic officers at LHR,
Just because you are the biggest waste of money VS can think of, there is no need to slag people off.
As an ex CLP person I have to say that LHR is the only station we ever had/have these kind of problems. Everyone makes mistakes and you are there to try and prevent a delay, not to cause - just to stitch up someone in CLP. All staions around the world would try to get OTP but you will wait till -5 and then call to say that you have some kind of a problem. How sad?!? May be you are too busy chatting up at the gate....coz let be honest...what else you do now, with the ACARS l/sheets? Ur only task to take a l/sheet to the flt deck has gone with the wind...probably you are praying BAA not to get automatic jettys coz then you will cross the line of absolutelly useless!!!
I can not believe that there is not 1 person in VS with few brain cells together to spend a day with a traffic officer and do a job evaluation, discover that u dont really do anything, close traffic down and subcontract the job to PH and save VS a million or so....
there you go -that's a proposition for your VIAGRA scheme!!! I would let you have the credit fot it!!
You leave your office without l/plans on 80% of the flts, you have no idea that there is a frt on sby, we ask for you to call us(so we can tell you wot can/cant trvl) and 20 mins later we are still waiting for this call, you can't be bothered with a courtesy call before your flt to make sure everything's OK....the list is very long mate...
Before you start winging about CLP take a look at what's real life is all about, take a deep breath and ...... get a life!!!
If you think you'll end up being Mr.Ridgeway - i seriouslly doubt it.
Suggest sort out yourselves first before you start complaining about other people....and if you are THAT concern about VS you have my permission to forward the above proposal on your intranet/VIAGRA:
Get rid of LHR Traffic, let Plane Handling put the jetty on....coz once again... this is the only task a LHR Traffic officer does on his/hers 1 flight a day!!
And to finish it off - not being personal but really think you should get out more often!!!
There are much more interesting things out there instead of spending your time going bitter and twisted about good people that you have never even met!!!!
GET A LIFE LEEZYJET!!!
Just because you are the biggest waste of money VS can think of, there is no need to slag people off.
As an ex CLP person I have to say that LHR is the only station we ever had/have these kind of problems. Everyone makes mistakes and you are there to try and prevent a delay, not to cause - just to stitch up someone in CLP. All staions around the world would try to get OTP but you will wait till -5 and then call to say that you have some kind of a problem. How sad?!? May be you are too busy chatting up at the gate....coz let be honest...what else you do now, with the ACARS l/sheets? Ur only task to take a l/sheet to the flt deck has gone with the wind...probably you are praying BAA not to get automatic jettys coz then you will cross the line of absolutelly useless!!!
I can not believe that there is not 1 person in VS with few brain cells together to spend a day with a traffic officer and do a job evaluation, discover that u dont really do anything, close traffic down and subcontract the job to PH and save VS a million or so....
there you go -that's a proposition for your VIAGRA scheme!!! I would let you have the credit fot it!!
You leave your office without l/plans on 80% of the flts, you have no idea that there is a frt on sby, we ask for you to call us(so we can tell you wot can/cant trvl) and 20 mins later we are still waiting for this call, you can't be bothered with a courtesy call before your flt to make sure everything's OK....the list is very long mate...
Before you start winging about CLP take a look at what's real life is all about, take a deep breath and ...... get a life!!!
If you think you'll end up being Mr.Ridgeway - i seriouslly doubt it.
Suggest sort out yourselves first before you start complaining about other people....and if you are THAT concern about VS you have my permission to forward the above proposal on your intranet/VIAGRA:
Get rid of LHR Traffic, let Plane Handling put the jetty on....coz once again... this is the only task a LHR Traffic officer does on his/hers 1 flight a day!!
And to finish it off - not being personal but really think you should get out more often!!!
There are much more interesting things out there instead of spending your time going bitter and twisted about good people that you have never even met!!!!
GET A LIFE LEEZYJET!!!
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Havelife,
The point being made by leezyjet and other ex-T/Os like myself is that we could do your job with our eyes shut.When I worked for AF I was dispatching 2 PIA 747combis at the same time,doing manual loadsheets on both and sorting out turnaround issues at the same time.All you lot did was sit in that office at LGW...you had no idea what was happening at the a/c side.At the end of the day,there are some Traffic Officers at LHR that are vastly more experienced than the novices at CLP.Instead of your (stupid) suggestion about scrapping Traffic and letting you and PH take over,CLP should be scrapped and load planning given to Traffic...God knows we couldn't make a worse job of it.
777
P.s D-Plan is probably the worst load planning system I have ever seen....and manual load plans....are we back in the stone age??
The point being made by leezyjet and other ex-T/Os like myself is that we could do your job with our eyes shut.When I worked for AF I was dispatching 2 PIA 747combis at the same time,doing manual loadsheets on both and sorting out turnaround issues at the same time.All you lot did was sit in that office at LGW...you had no idea what was happening at the a/c side.At the end of the day,there are some Traffic Officers at LHR that are vastly more experienced than the novices at CLP.Instead of your (stupid) suggestion about scrapping Traffic and letting you and PH take over,CLP should be scrapped and load planning given to Traffic...God knows we couldn't make a worse job of it.
777
P.s D-Plan is probably the worst load planning system I have ever seen....and manual load plans....are we back in the stone age??
Join Date: Jan 2004
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CLP
OK.
Back to basics then: i was a traffic officer for almost 4 years. Day in/out on the Ramp only(including VS flts). You have PAX svcs agent on the a/c negotiating boarding time with the Purser. You have cargo agent outside supervising loading(who by the way very often will do your job and call CLP for any issues regarding loading, while you are upstairs chatting and sipping coffees).
I am not defending D-plan(altough the new version is meant to be The Thing!!) or the novices in CLP or trying to say that one needs a degree to be able to do the job...
All i was trying to say is and I don't know why you are so scared to admit it - is the fact that LHR traffic officer job boils down to make sure the Skipper got his l/sheet and the jetty is on/off.
It is not the question that you/they can't do the load planing...and it might even happen one day.
The question was that instead of whinging about CLP and their mistakes you should be pro-active in trying to sort them out instead of causing a delay, just to prove a point!!!
I will repeat this again in case you didnt hear me the first time:
LHR is the only station in the whole VS network that there is a problem between CLP and VS Traffic(not everyone - there are few cool ones).
The fact speaks volume by itself.
I am an ex-Aviance anyway, so i don't really care that much as i have moved out of aviation but ...when i read all this stories and see all these bitter Traffic Officers it does make me laugh!
You all have too much time to waste here whinging and whinging.
It's all done probably in between sending VS e-mails to each other coz you are all so upsest with it!
Once again chaps,
get out...get girlfriends....get lives!!!
....and b4 any1 says anything - i am at work...very quite...bored...hence me being here!!!!
Back to basics then: i was a traffic officer for almost 4 years. Day in/out on the Ramp only(including VS flts). You have PAX svcs agent on the a/c negotiating boarding time with the Purser. You have cargo agent outside supervising loading(who by the way very often will do your job and call CLP for any issues regarding loading, while you are upstairs chatting and sipping coffees).
I am not defending D-plan(altough the new version is meant to be The Thing!!) or the novices in CLP or trying to say that one needs a degree to be able to do the job...
All i was trying to say is and I don't know why you are so scared to admit it - is the fact that LHR traffic officer job boils down to make sure the Skipper got his l/sheet and the jetty is on/off.
It is not the question that you/they can't do the load planing...and it might even happen one day.
The question was that instead of whinging about CLP and their mistakes you should be pro-active in trying to sort them out instead of causing a delay, just to prove a point!!!
I will repeat this again in case you didnt hear me the first time:
LHR is the only station in the whole VS network that there is a problem between CLP and VS Traffic(not everyone - there are few cool ones).
The fact speaks volume by itself.
I am an ex-Aviance anyway, so i don't really care that much as i have moved out of aviation but ...when i read all this stories and see all these bitter Traffic Officers it does make me laugh!
You all have too much time to waste here whinging and whinging.
It's all done probably in between sending VS e-mails to each other coz you are all so upsest with it!
Once again chaps,
get out...get girlfriends....get lives!!!
....and b4 any1 says anything - i am at work...very quite...bored...hence me being here!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Having served my time at Aviance, I know exactly what they consider the job to be, so I'm not surprised that you condem it now that I see your version of it.
I hope you didn't sign the loadsheet as that is supposed to imply that you made sure that all was correct and loaded as shown. When the aircraft has a problem, especially regarding safety, some people are going to be asking YOU some questions if it had anything to do with the loading and/or loadsheet.
You should forget the basics of how to fit in with the way Aviance et al does business and think about what is the safest and most efficient way of getting an aircraft turned around.
I hope you didn't sign the loadsheet as that is supposed to imply that you made sure that all was correct and loaded as shown. When the aircraft has a problem, especially regarding safety, some people are going to be asking YOU some questions if it had anything to do with the loading and/or loadsheet.
You should forget the basics of how to fit in with the way Aviance et al does business and think about what is the safest and most efficient way of getting an aircraft turned around.
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Have life
Just to get started I DO NOT work for Virgin and to clarify I HAVE worked as a L/C and in CLP.
You have a fair point the VS traffic job is one of doing very little. But the ONE thing the should do is to make sure the loadsheet is in line with the LIR. ACARS or not the T/O still has to get the info to CLP and CLP have to put the correct info together for the loadsheet and any decent L/C or T/O will check to see if this has been done, ask for a loadsheet to your printer or check the ACARS one themselves.... Its not too much to ask if you have decent people around you!... Yes there will always be petty arguments between Airline and agents and those even less mature few who will cause a delay just to prove a point. Me when I was in both positions if things went wrong just put it right as soon as possible and then go home and sleep easy!!
If you considered yourself to be one of the good CLP'ers and obviously Leezy considers himself to be one of the "good" T/O's then you are actually agreeing with each other. But we all know that there are people in both positions who dont have a clue!!
The way this thread has turned is to be the failure of handling agents to keep up the unrealistic SLA's with the airlines due to lack of manpower, very very poor recruitment at all levels(this is so important), non existant training, and management who are a f**king joke!!
WTD
Just to get started I DO NOT work for Virgin and to clarify I HAVE worked as a L/C and in CLP.
You have a fair point the VS traffic job is one of doing very little. But the ONE thing the should do is to make sure the loadsheet is in line with the LIR. ACARS or not the T/O still has to get the info to CLP and CLP have to put the correct info together for the loadsheet and any decent L/C or T/O will check to see if this has been done, ask for a loadsheet to your printer or check the ACARS one themselves.... Its not too much to ask if you have decent people around you!... Yes there will always be petty arguments between Airline and agents and those even less mature few who will cause a delay just to prove a point. Me when I was in both positions if things went wrong just put it right as soon as possible and then go home and sleep easy!!
If you considered yourself to be one of the good CLP'ers and obviously Leezy considers himself to be one of the "good" T/O's then you are actually agreeing with each other. But we all know that there are people in both positions who dont have a clue!!
The way this thread has turned is to be the failure of handling agents to keep up the unrealistic SLA's with the airlines due to lack of manpower, very very poor recruitment at all levels(this is so important), non existant training, and management who are a f**king joke!!
WTD
