Tenerife.

Just how would TCAS have prevented this tragedy?

Please remind us all again, just what do the initials TCAS stand for ?

You may want to read this article first...and then review your comment.

http://www.ou.edu/cls/online/lstd5683b/pdfs/weick.pdf

Anyone that knows how TCAS works, know that all TCAS commands are advisory not control functions and require the crew to react to the TA or RA commands. Aircraft with TCAS have collided because one of the crews did exactly the opposite of what their TCAS RA call demanded, but that was due to them obeying a conflicting call by the ATC airspace controller. As reports said, if the crew had gone with the TCAS call (that they would have every right to do over the ATC one), the collision would have been virtually impossible to happen.

Pilotless Trial in UK Airspace May 2013
 

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22511408

By David Coates
Published on 11/05/2013 08:45

The first unmanned flight over British skies has taken place over Lancashire, it has been revealed.
Defence giant BAE Systems has said the Jetstream research aircraft flew 500 miles from its base at Warton, near Preston to Inverness in Scotland being piloted from a base on the ground.
The aircraft - dubbed ‘the flying test bed’ - is fitted with technology to allow it to fly without a pilot in the cockpit.
Lambert Dopping-Hepenstal, programme director of the £62m ASTRAEA project behind the technology, said the trials showed unmanned aircraft could be flown.
He said: “The work being done here today and hopefully continued into the next phase of the ASTRAEA programme, will likely impact all of us in the next five, ten, 20 years as unmanned aircraft and associated technology develop and become a part of everyday life.
“These latest trials help prove the technology we need to routinely operate unmanned aircraft in our airspace and also help the regulators develop the framework in which the aircraft can operate in.
“Simply put, I believe we are writing a new chapter in aviation history.”
Andrew Chapman, an unmanned flight expert at the National Air Traffic Control Services, said the test flight was evidence such forays could take place without impacting other aircraft.
He added: “There is still work to be done but it would seem that, on the basis of this flight, an unmanned air vehicle could operate in different classes of airspace.”
The ASTRAEA (Autonomous Systems Technology Related Airborne Evaluation and Assessment) programme is an industry-backed programme aimed at developing pilotless technology.

Marine Corps extends K-MAX Afghanistan deployment to 2013.... This is old news and this is a heli-go-flopter. Fixed wing should be a breese....

Yes agreed, I was very surprised when i read this (and other articles on it) alas there were crew in the cockpit for safety reasons who conducted take off and landing with the remainder being flown remotely. Now how does this differ from current commercial flights where the crew program the FMS with the route and select autopilot with nav control until just before landing. All that has been proved in this trial is the remote control of the FMS/autopilot. When they get to auto take off and landing that can cope with difficult situations (crosswind, NDB/inst approaches) with far more reliability and the ability to automatically react safely to emergent situations then the future will start to look different.

UAS have been dreamed of and written about for many years but it is emerging technology and in the current climate of heavy regulation for safety reasons coupled with the desire to move away from a "fly, crash, fix" methodology mean that it will be decades before they are ever certified to carry pax or freight on a routine basis.

I don't deny it will happen I'm just a little more realistic of when:rolleyes:

Rome wasn't built in a day!
 

"Yes agreed, I was very surprised when i read this (and other articles on it) alas there were crew in the cockpit for safety reasons who conducted take off and landing with the remainder being flown remotely".


That's why it's called Trials!

Unmanned Flight: The Drones Come Home - Pictures, More From National Geographic Magazine

Article in March NG about drones. I think we're a long way from pilotless commercial flights, if ever, but the article makes interesting reading.

Wolfman
 

I have thought about this statement for about a week now.

Military aviation have completed the most extreme UAV ops.

Civil aviation have completed UAV flights with a single pilot performing only T/O and landing during the mission.

Our current civil aircraft are designed and by many SOP's land in automation (after simple configuration) autonomously.

The rate that we are moving at is exponential towards civil UAV flight.

How can anyone make a "realistic" judgment of when?

The only thing certain in life is change.

The words GLOBAL, CORPERATE, FINANCIAL, LIABILITY etc.. Are the power words we should be thinking of on this matter when you wish to think of what is realistic.

All this thread proves is how little engineers know about airline piloting.

We had remote control planes decades ago. And you could have programmed them to fly an ILS back then with less technology than a pocket calculator. It doesn't mean there'll be pilotless passenger aircraft anytime this side of 2050. Flying normal takeoffs and normal landings are the simplest/easiest/smallest parts of the job.

50 years minimum. By then we'll probably have robotic engineers, with robot engineer engineers and so on ;)

An interesting thread. Personally I think we will one day see pilot-less commercial flights, but it's a long long way off. Look at the airliners being made/designed now (A350,787, Neo, Max). They will be in operation for the next 20+ years and they haven't even considered not having 2 pilots.

The next logical step would be to introduce UAVs for non-passenger roles (crop-spraying, aerial surveying etc). Then I think we might move to 1 pilot cockpit designs, where the plane all but flies itself and the pilot is purely a back-up. Then eventually we could have pilot-less airliners, but it's a long way off.

Hmm, 99% of your actual workload as well.

Whilst on a train earlier today I was wondering if there are driverless trains on long distance or high speed routes anywhere in the world.

I know that local transit type operations are often driverless, but I think that's the limit.

Who do you blame when Mr Coffees pooch is serviced?:eek:

Man, have you ever seen those crop dusters go?? Dropping their line and doing a hammerhead for the next. I would doubt this could compete first. The 1 PM design will most likely be the civil aircraft entrance.

finally, you have answered your own question..

The reason we have no pilotless airliners, is there is no money in it!

end of...

Negative. You've proved my point again.

Is 99% of an engineers job topping up the oil?

Good post by Contour Flyer
 

I am prepared to accept that at some time in the distant future 'anything' is possible - however for the immediate future (i.e. 200 years) pilotless airliners do not make safety, or commercial sense.

Some people here have suggested that also engineers could be replaced. I doubt that is likely ever. (well not in the next 400 years anyway!)

I speak as an ex LAE, ex Flight Engineer, Captain and General Builder.


Regards
Exeng

Possibly of interest.
 

Your questions answered: ASTRAEA autonomous planes | In-depth | The Engineer

"The first “trailblazer” is likely to be the US Department of Defense. Now that withdrawal from Afghanistan is well under way, there will be a large number of “drones” based in the US. The second will be the deployment of key sub-systems developed for the UAS market in manned aircraft. Here the system is not taking over from the human, but assisting in maintaining situational awareness and helping to select the safest action to take. The first commercial uses of UAS in unrestricted airspace, I believe, will be: freight; inspection of key infrastructure, such as power lines or oil pipelines; and agricultural surveillance, e.g., of livestock or crops.: