As a student pilot, I have a lot of respect for engineers - I can't say that engineering the aircraft is something that rocks my boat but the guys who maintain the a/c I train on are amazing > Its easy to see how long and hard they have worked to be as good as they are!

Pilots and engineers' should work and communicate hand in hand infact pilots should communicate with everyone they work with in a professional manor

And whose big house would that be then? Or did you mean 'manner'? :ok:

Who on earth would let a greenie go near an aircraft with a sharp object? Good God! I wouldn't let one slice bread.
As regards engineers and pilots, after 48 years in aviation I can honestly say that some of my best friends are pilots and engineers but would you let your daighter marry one ?

pre-madonna? Is that before she became a material girl? or after she became a prima-donna?:ok:

As engineer I saw and heard several things from pilots that really were not professional toward engineers. To the extend I really didn't bother fixing things properly for them. Fortunately, I changed habit in this by getting to know some pilots (I fly myself), and my view on it changed. Most pilots are good chaps but rotten apples exist, just leave them alone when they are in maintenance trouble.
On the other hand, the same goes for engineers. I've heard engineers telling the most incorrect things to pilots just to get the aircraft away. And I sometimes also am stunned by the technical knowledge some pilots have about underlying systems.
So indeed, work as a team

WTF???????

Wheel replaced but not torqued up? Oxygen topped up with nitrogen? Or maybe just rigging the toilet up to blow warm effluent over the skipper when he flushes it? Do elaborate!

Piper69, I hope you were not trying to explain the Engineers 'Professional Attitude' with your statement. Methinks you may have blown it!!!

I can still remember being a young RAF pilot and having it pointed out to me that you need "O" levels to be an officer and a pilot but "A" levels to make an airman in many engineering trades.

Simple answer to the Flight Crew vs Engineers arguement is that the first powered aircraft pilots were engineers before they were pilots!:E

With Tongue Firmly in Cheek
 

The military is taking pilots out of the cockpit and making their aircraft automated, there are however no plans to do likewise with the maintenance of the same aircraft!:ok:

I completely agree with all the posts about pilots needing engineers and vice versa, aviation is a team sport and people who don't understand that have no place in it in my honest opinion.

Also, Engineers make me laugh. At my company we have a lot to do with the engineers as the aircraft I fly are nearly (and some as) as old as I am. Usually they come up the stairs to ask us if the aircraft is good and if there weren't any major faults. As I know this I usually already say that directly after saying hello :)

Only last week it turned out I was mistaken...

Me: Hello! Aircraft is good!
Engineer: No it isn't...
Me: No really it's fine, no major problems (me thinking, engineer might have mixed up the aircraft)
Engineer: No really, it's f*cked
Me: Are you sure?
Engineer: Well.... it depends...
Me: On what...
Engineer: if you qualify a massive puddle of hydraulic fluid under the #1 engine and it still leaking out as no problem...
Me: *quiet and humbled again*

I am glad your peers have taken exception to that post piper19.

Rise above not sink to the level of the arseholes we all have to deal with day in day out. You will be a happier person for it.

I say Eng, can you have a look at that Left Outer tyre please?

Its OK Cap'n, it has three landings left.


(For those who don't understand, thats one landing at the destination, one for the return and a spare in case of diversion.)

Folks,
All this remind me of a long since retired BOAC/BA engineer, many years at Heathrow, always worked on contract customer's aircraft (was also a motorbike maniac, some of you may remember him) because he was so good at diplomatically handling "contract customer's crews".

He wasn't a bad AME, either.

Anyway, we arrived late one morning, having had a rudder defect in Bangkok, where BA's chaps swapped some boxes, and the defect "disappeared".

By Heathrow, now we had a another rudder defect.

On the ground, said chap, very patiently (as he always did) explained to the "engineeringly challenged Captain", ie; me, all about the defect, and what "they" had done wrong in Bangkok.

In the middle of the explanation, he realised that what he had said was a complete explanation of why what he had said could NOT be the "new" problem, and changed gears so smoothly in doing a 180, that even I was impressed. Not even a momentary pause in the flow of "explanation".

As a matter of interest, the real problem all along was not electrical/electronic/hydraulic, but a mechanical failure in a PCU, where they had never failed before, as I found out after a big delay 36 hours later.

Amazing what you find, when you get up and actually have a look. But it took an increasing less diplomatic Captain quite a while to convince "the chappies" that they were going to have to get the cherrypicker and have that look see.

Tootle pip!!

Actually now you mention it...I know there are avionics engineers and the guys that top up the oil so to speak. So no, I wouldn't mind a brief lesson in engineering, because this is a bit embarassing!

Design Side
 

Design side of Engineering (Qualifications):

MINIMUM at entry-level career.

Engineer: Full-Time 3 Yrs Degree (or 3+x yrs part-time)
Pilot: Full-Time 1.5 Yrs practical flying and multiple choice box ticking.

'nuff said. :}

As the owner of a PA18 that lives a hard life as a glider tug, we could not go very far without the TLC of my engineer, a man of great experience, incredible ingenuity, absolute integrity, and all the engineering qualifications.

And now for something completely different.....
 

Recommend to all engineers (and pilots) in need of a good laugh, visit ATC Humour sticky, page six, item 115......

Faz1989, I meant that their comments made me feel bad at that time, not that I would have send an unsafe airplane in the air. Pwew, I hope I saved my day here. Sometimes difficult to express yourself in a foreign language.:ok: