Mr Henderson, of GE fame seems to have drawn a duff hand here, FLS are still running along in the "head in sand mode".

No-one seems to want to change, the engineers are getting the crap and the management team seem to be carrying on much as before.

Total and utter lack of information being handed down to the shop floor, by some managers!! Shop floor workers are getting tired of being asked to put more effort into thier tasks and not being told whats happening.

If any managers are reading this thread supprise the bodies working for you, and tell them whats happening, you must have daily/weekly management meetings. They may be just able to help you some more......

Just as well the contracting has picked up, I'm off for a pocket filling winter.... ;)

Wholeheartedly agree with you FF Cat.
Me too.

------------------

The guys at Manchester could always apply to BAe Avrotec at Woodford. They need good people, always.

FF Cat

Try telling that to the ex FLS Gla engineers.

With all the ads for people to join FLS as maintrol engineers this week, makes me wonder if FLS are trying to bolster up their position in the industry. Is anybody, either customer or employee happy with them?

The ad for Maintrol Engineers is in because four have left recently as well as two from the materials side due to being on the receiving end of constant complaints from FLS's customers about the failings of FLS as a whole. This is not an attempt to attain more business, merely an attempt to stop losing it!!

FF CAT

If things are going so swimmingly then, why are FLS going to lose the Virgin Sun contract, one of the 3 contracts the line have left? I have seen the changes first hand and realised that the writing is on the wall. It is only when you leave and look in from the outside that you see how bad FLS has become. Mr Hendersons six sigma system is not the way forward, it will go the same way Face to Face, and TQM went, even the F Times thinks the system is no good. The web site opening page sums it up, the designers dressed up as COWBOYS!! Again pull your head out of the sand and see whats going on

the biggest difficulty facing FLS at the moment is not six sigma or anything else, but the fact that each dept seems to think of it self as the only dept that counts, and the fact that many middle managers feel that they know best, and while openly accepting the ideas and principles of six sigma and the other programs that are running so they can keep thier jobs, they infact disagree with them. Also this theory of cascading information down to the actual sharp end of the buisiness seems very alien to them as i think that see us lowly engineers as people who have difficulty in tying our shoe laces up every morning OH HOW WRONG THEY ARE

------------------
when now ?

[This message has been edited by OGRI 1 (edited 16 September 2000).]

Dozy Bell.

Hear Hear. Poor FF Cat seems to have company issue rose tinted glasses on. Hope he might have some serious inside information... Cascading it down to his work force.I Doubt it though. :rolleyes:

Ogri 1

I agree whole heartedly with you, at least from what I have heard. One for all and me for myself seems to be appropriate from your missives. ;)

------------------
U want it when?

FF Cat in reply to your thread on the 12 of Sept, you may only be defending them as at the moment, they are paying your salary, but can you be honest and say that you have never applied for a position outside of that organisation?.
I agree with the fact about their credit control dept, if they have decided to wake up it can only be a good thing, as my organisation has for many years had difficulties in extracting monies from them. Even when they were FFV, so this at least should stop a lot of speculation to your companies future. As to the F1 project, the A/C currently on a P6 check is according to my sources not as well managed as the pilot A/C done at stansted if so it is a shame, obviously FLS do not like adopting new practices,

[This message has been edited by OGRI 1 (edited 17 September 2000).]

I have to agree with Snapon about FF Cats glasses. He appears to be suffering from myopia as well as far as FLS are concerned. Like many people I HAVE had direct first hand experience of FLS as both an employee and a customer. I can only assume from your demeanor FF Cat that you are not a shop floor engineer. If this is not the case I apologise for my mistake. However I am hazarding a guess that you are in "the offices",as it were, which in my long experience (first hand!) is the only place where employees are treated with any respect.
Your remarks concerning PlainOldFitter being just a contractor and not a CEO rankle somewhat. I'll bet PlainOldFitter is quite good at his job. The new CEO has yet to prove that he is. You appear to be displaying FLS management syndrome towards the "lowlife" on the floor!!!!!!!Exactly why everyone leaves. :mad:

FF Cat has gone long live the CAT.

Good to see FLS management have staying power, suppose he comes from a well tried and tested school of managers. Wonder if he has seen the truth of his work force's lack of guidance and is off to help steer them in the right direction?

I spoke to a GE employee, and if you are not 100% for the six smegma reigeme then you are history......may be some relief for the boys there after all.

FF Cat has gone long live the CAT.

Good to see FLS management have staying power, suppose he comes from a well tried and tested school of managers. Wonder if he has seen the truth of his work force's lack of guidance and is off to help steer them in the right direction?

I spoke to a GE employee, and if you are not 100% for the six smegma reigeme then you are history......may be some relief for the boys there after all.

Some sweeping statements seem to be being made about me moaning about FLS after being on the fashionable (or is it unfashionable!) end of a company re-sizing. Well ,just for the record, I left FLS many years ago all of my own accord to go to a much better job where I was treated as a human being rather than a dog !!!!!!! Funnily enough more than 60% of the a+c engineers did exactly the same thing. That's a turnover to be proud of I'd say. Not many companies can match that sort of performance. The management responded to this crisis in superb morale raising fashion and immediately did absolutely nothing.
Again I do apologise if I am wrong, but I cannot see how FF cat (long may he live) can be a customer of FLS and at the same time be praising them--it just isn't possible!!It defies all known logic!! If there are any customers of FLS out there who are generally or even vaguely satisfied with the overall service, please let us all know and I will eat my words or bare my arse in Sainsbury's window on Saturday whichever you prefer.
Just as an anecdote to FF Cat:- this is a rumour network forum and no direct or personal criticism is meant. You appear to genuinely care about the business and shop floor workforce. Not many of the higher management do. If there were more people like this FLS would increase its longer term prospects and be a much better place to work in. Happier workforce= happier customers... :)

http://avanimation.avsupport.com/gif/Flythru.gif
Fed Up!
Leaving
Soon !!!

DEPARTURE LOUNGE

The finger OFF the pulse management chooses to ignore the ever shrinking workforce, placing an even geater strain on already limited resources. Not something desirable in our line of work! Sooner or later something has to give.


Formula 1
Losing the plot with
Six Sigma

I doubt the current management - all on the 6 sigma bandwagon, something a couple of cowboys dreampt up, has expertise to turn things around.

" 3.4 defects per million opportunities for defect" http://www.geocities.com/thehugmonst...s/iconpuke.gif

Hardly relevant to our highly diverse and complex industry, if it works we'll all be made redundant!

I think not !!

Alas, nothing will change until the sign on the door does, and only then when a completely revamped management team with sufficient experience and the depth in this industry are appointed.

Ignorance is bliss ! (While it lasts)

[This message has been edited by IMA Conehead (edited 28 September 2000).]

Now THAT is a valid point. management by buzz-word (to quote the unofficial FLS website) never can work in this industry. Yes - lets have managers who actually know that the pointy end is at the front of the aircraft. There is even a totally unqualified person acting as a planner in maintrol. That has got to be very very dangerous.

Hey guys I have been following this Whole Fls issue all the way. And most of the things are so very true and most will probably happen.
I can actually see it 'first hand', "I AM THERE!" It is not good news I am afraid, and Mr.FFCAT, sorry mate,, but it's not much you can do!

"And I also have a very good idea who you are",,,,,,,,don't worry as I like what you stand for, but from what I see and know from the floor right UP, it does not look too bright!

A/C Slave is spot on!
FLS is not far off having the 'last rites' read to it.
The proliforation of 'management schemes' such as 'Formula 1' (great, until an inspection gets missed, and the results are seen on the TV news)....it's all been seen before, TQM, Investors in People (ho, ho, ho, sick joke).
FLS will never get anywhere if it can't attract the engineers, and it won't help it's cause by pulling stunts like opening GLA line, then closing it a month later...who the hell would want to drop everything to go and work for a 'management' so clueless???
This particular incident is just plain cruel, it simply sums up what most of us already know, that FLS has got just about the same prospects for survival as Tony Blair's Millennium Dome (doom).
As for the Maintrol situation, the feedback is that the individual doing the line planning has now progressed to the engineers desk, going beyond 'very dangerous' to '****ing suicidal'.
Yes, FLS is in it's death throes, the incidents listed here are just a couple of many, low morale, gash management, cronyism...and so it goes on.

Seeing the DC10 above made me wonder how long it will be before Continental will start legal procedings against FLS for failing to detect that a 15 inch panel was becoming detached? When was the aircraft last through FLS LGW? Did the F1 system have anything to do with this ? As mentioned above inspections have been missed!

Ima Conehead

if I said "man is not a camel" would that mean anything to you?

------------------
Who said it was wiring?