X licence for JAR 66
 

I'm thinking of doing the licence by post correspondance course for modules 20 and 21 so as to get my JAR 66 licence.
2 questions
1 does anybody have experience of doing it this way, if so is it any good?
2 Does anybody have a data bank of multi choice and/or written type questions?

I have a couple of friends that have taken their X licence, by licence by post self study. Both have passed but said that it required a lot of self motivation. Maybe a course at one of the colleges is easier on the motivation, but harder on the wallet?
I am trying to do all mine by self study for the JAR 66 conversion, but there is little or no information avaliable on this and the caa are a little confused.
Good luck anyway, I don't think there is an easy way!

A correspondance course eh? This question certainly provides a good illustration of the reduction in standards :rolleyes: Time was that to certify electrical systems called for a type rated "X" Electrical licence. This required three years practical experience backed by certified worksheets, six months on type with a complete schedule of inspection work covering every piece of electrical equipment in the aircraft, a 'pass' result on an approved aircraft type course, a 180 question multi choice paper and a six question essay paper. This gained you admission to a six hour oral grilling to get the licence. Similar rules applied to "A" "C" "X" Instruments and "R" Radio.

Now, that may have been overkill, but it certainly highlights the fall in standards represented by JAR 66 http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif: http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif:

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Through difficulties to the cinema

Blacksheep, I have 5 years practical experience does that count. Point taken though.

When doing the license by post you have to have a minimum of three years live a/c exp. But under the new rules i.e. JAR66 this will increase to five years.

You do have to remember that some of the guys doing the licence by post are ex armed forces with upto 22 years exp.

This means we can tell the diffence between a ring spanner and a hammer

Jobsworth having served for 12 years in the RAF myself I must beg to differ. I have met people who have asked me which tools to buy when coming out metric or imperial, which gives me the impression of not being so bright. Another thing is going on about
"when I was in the RAF", the fact that someone has done 22 years does not always mean they are any good. You will find times when you leave that you will deny your ex RAF so as to not be mistaken for being a Donkey. Two positives about leaving the RAF
1. Overtime
2. No secondary duty crap
As far as the best route for a licence course is concerned I would suggest going to Kidlington, I did both my A & C with them and found them very good (passed both first time).
Good luck with the job hunting

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"Tally Ho"

Raffles

True,

But in GA your points 1 & 2 are sometimes NA if you get my drift? If not I'll just FO!

Eh?

Jobsworth, as you will no doubt learn there is a vast difference between the RAF and the real world. I know because I've done it. At the time I did my licences, 1989, there were a lot of 22 year boys who thought they knew it all and couldn't understand why they were failing their licence exams. Because they thought they knew it all, they didn't put in the hard work studying and finding out what is what in civil aviation. I'm not putting you in this category. I studied all the books I could find for 12 months or so and then did a legislation course at Kidlington, at my own expense and time. What most seemed to ignore were the basics particularly module 2. It's not easy, even though it is supposedly getting easier, so don't think its a breeze otherwise you are in for a bit of a shock.
Good luck anyway.

Did my 'A' licence as self study, including LBP and passed too. I had motivation, but also a family too! But let's face it, if it was that easy then everyone involved in aviation maintenance would have at lest one ticket. Raffles, who did you get a job with when you left HM Flying club? I have heard of some horendous tails of people leaving the mob and finding it difficult to settle. Who knows, when this new regime in the military takes hold, people may find it easier to settle into a proper job.

But back to the point in hand, I have heard from colleagues who have taken modules 20 & 21 that it is not easy. I too have to do it this year, but seeing what OATS at Kidlington are charging, I expect it will be good old self study again. But I have a secret weapon; my lad is doing GCSE Electronic Porducts this year. I am sure he will be able to help me over the tricky bits!

Spanners, this reflects exactly what I found.
Indeed when at Kidlington (again like you at own expense) I found the guy's on resetlement
just treating it like a p*!* up. They had no clue about reality, CV's, job applications etc. One 22 year Cpl asked if he should wear a suit to an interview (what planet).
Greasey, my first stop was Marshalls, having worked the TriStar in the RAF and completed the Airframe & Engine course they ripped my hands off. The job was not the best but I learned more about the a/c in 18 months hangar work than 6 years line work. Tore myself away to join an airline at LHR (red tails, need I say more). They supported me with time off to go to Kidlington. You don't get anything on a plate, but try telling that to a 22 year Chief who knows it all.

By the way at least greasey can spell technician (jobsworth take note)
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"Tally Ho"

[This message has been edited by Raffles (edited 27 February 2000).]

I'm also an ex "crabfat". On of my first experiences on leaving the RAF was an ex Chief Tech who told me in no uncertain terms, "I was a Chief Tech, you were a Corporal so you'd better do as I tell you as I out rank you."

My reply was that as I'd joined the company before him, he could go **** himself.

I'm also trying to convert BCAR licences to JAR 66 and the CAA are certainly vague as to what I need to do.

Jobsworth et al,

As you may note, I was being deliberately provocative and it stirred up quite a good response.

(BTW, my signature reveals my origins as an ex "Crabfat" - I did 14 years man and boy. When I left the VC10s were still shiny new things and some airlines were actually flying them as well!)

The point I'd like to make is that the qualifications for certification privileges are being continually dumbed down. The reason given is that responsibility for airworthiness should lie with the company rather than with individuals. The company system ensures airworthiness because the system is geared to provide a broader overview than any individual can handle.

This ignores the point that it may be better not to vest control of airworthiness directly in the hands of those who have a financial interest in keeping costs at a minimum. When times are hard, Engineering Departments will always find it hard to resist the pressure from Finance to cut costs to the bone. Finance departments are not equipped or trained to understand airworthines issues. An independant Licenced Engineer has it in his power to refuse to sign a certificate unless he is certain that compliance standards are met. A servant of the company has this right curtailed, he only acts on behalf of the company. Since the certifying engineer or technician only certifies that the company's system has been satisfied, the level of knowledge tested externally is reduced. In fact, since most JAR 175 training schemes are part of company's own in-house systems, companies will soon be responsible for examination standards too!

The end result is a gradual reduction in overall control of standards. Don't underestimate the downward pressure on engineering salaries either!

As some have observed, the people currently applying for licences have experience and qualification levels well above those called for in JAR66. True, but how about the future? Will the military forever turn out 22 year experienced men? Will there always be a supply of experienced men sufficient to meet demand? Bear in mind that JAR66 allows a person to walk into a hangar, off the street as it were, and without formal training he can be certifying airworthiness within 5 years on the strength of passing a few short multi-answer question papers. Think about it.

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Through difficulties to the cinema

I would like to thank all for their opinions and especially blacksheep who has highlighted a point i agree with, as does my SENGO who was reading over my shoulder.
I personally dont think that the civvy industry will be able to rely on the armed forces forever, as we are now down to a low man power level and people are staying in longer only to never work on aircraft again.
Maybe the civvy industry should look to train their own more and make it easier to get into at a young age. Who knows had there been the work oppertunitys i might never have joined the RAF.
Please dont hassle me over spelling as i failed my english at school.

Jobsworth, Sory four mencheing yoor spelng, it doosnt meen evrythink yoo nkow.

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"Tally Ho"

Spanners,

Email me, I need to update you.
Re JAR 66 - the JAA/CAA scrapped the oral because there was no way the consistency of examination could be verified across the JAA countries. The JAA data bank of questions currently numbers 5000 but has not as yet been released. When it reaches 15000 it will be made public. To quote a JAA rep "....if an engineer can remember 15000 questions he/she deserve the licence".

Personally, I do not think JAR 66 has turned out to be as bad as expected. I can hear the howls of indignation from here!!!

Getting back to the original question, I have a load of multi choice and essay questions that anyone is welcome to have copies of. I don't want to put my email address here so if anyone's interested, post a reply here or start a new message and I'll do my best to get them to you. :-)

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NO FAULT FOUND

Cones R Us,

I would like to take up your kind offer if I may.
My e-mail address is [email protected].
Any problems then let me know.
:) :)

[This message has been edited by airsafetyreport (edited 08 March 2000).]

Me too please at [email protected]

Any chance you could let me have copies of the multi choice. will pay postage etc.
thanks

Cones, brilliant, e-mail is [email protected]