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-   -   UK must leave EASA (https://www.pprune.org/engineers-technicians/604843-uk-must-leave-easa.html)

NutLoose 30th Jan 2018 23:21

UK must leave EASA
 
Another licence change on the horizon :mad: :ugh:

https://www.flyer.co.uk/uk-must-leav...rexit-says-eu/

Rigga 30th Jan 2018 23:26

Total carp.
To leave EASA due to not complying with the ECJ is to say that Switzerland and Norway also have to leave. Neither have total and unlimited acceptance of EU laws.

Tom Sawyer 31st Jan 2018 14:04

Unless the UK is a full member of the EU, and not the EFTA that Norway and Switzerland are in, we cannot be "full" members of EASA. Yes, we can stay in (depending on what status of membership is negotiated during the Brexit talks), but if we are not full members of EASA then we will lose all input into the formulation of any regulations that are developed and just have to accept them in whatever form they take and comply with them.

Heathrow Harry 31st Jan 2018 14:41

when you picl up your ball and walk off those left set the rules
https://www.pprune.org/images/editor/separator.gif
of course we could always sue them in the ECJ......

Rigga 2nd Feb 2018 23:02

Even if we walk, as harry says, the issue of licenses is almost moot as EASA Approved organisations should simply convert to 'Foreign' status and Licences would remain as they are - and continue to remain valid for renewal at your chosen EASA state. This situation should be the same for anyone holding FAA, CASA, NZCAA, etc, licences.

The CAA would HAVE TO issue 'Grandfather Rights' (again) licences to all currently licensed engineers and also issue BCAR Approvals to all current companies. The same as happened when joining JAA/EASA. (the same for pilots licences too)

The ONLY argument in the papers seems to be about travelling rights and I believe that is adequately covered by ICAO rules for freedom of international movement and access to destinations/airways.

Again, in my opinion, there is only complication for everyone in the perceived split - but there is no advantage for anyone mandating it. (edited bit:) there will be fees, of course!

NutLoose 3rd Feb 2018 00:40

There is a lot more to it than that, for one Modification certification for all types etc would all need to come back in house, plus stuff like flight test dept would need to start up again as it would then be the UK's responsibility to test any new models for the UK market, as would any airworthiness directives etc... And I doubt they have either the staffing or the knowledge base to do that these days...

BluFin 3rd Feb 2018 12:07

It was always going to be the case as the EJC is the enforcement for EASA, no ECJ no EASA, simples, house of parliament passed a law for that prior to joining anybody who thought otherwise including industry was living in 'remainerland' that's like Disney but without the rides.
From an engineering Licence perspective I would guess a complete revamp, you have the old BCAR system running in parallel currently, I could see that going. a conversion document produced, and something that would be essentially the same as EASA part 66. couldn't really use UK as that's in use now and could cause confusion. You have the transfer of state option now to convert to any member state, well apart from tx to German (LBA) who avoid non-nationals like the plague, or employed by German Part 145 companies.

easaman 3rd Feb 2018 14:27

BREXIT & leaving EASA
 
Folks do not worry!
UK will only leave EASA when the UK government transfers the 350 million per week to the National Health Service.
Up to now only amateurs and clowns have negotiated BREXIT subjects, towards the end will things be right sized by professionals, with common sense.
Cheers
easaman

NutLoose 3rd Feb 2018 15:07

Well that counts the CAA out of the equation.

His dudeness 3rd Feb 2018 17:59


UK will only leave EASA when the UK government transfers the 350 million per week to the National Health Service.
Good one, thanks.

Rigga 3rd Feb 2018 20:49


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10040312)
There is a lot more to it than that, for one Modification certification for all types etc would all need to come back in house, plus stuff like flight test dept would need to start up again as it would then be the UK's responsibility to test any new models for the UK market, as would any airworthiness directives etc... And I doubt they have either the staffing or the knowledge base to do that these days...

No, they would not! there is no legal reason to cancel any currently approved methods and/or approvals. EASA Approved companies must, legally, be maintained as EASA Standard organisations and applications for STC should still be made to EASA authorities - the same was for FAA STCs too..what would change?

For rotorcraft; the CAAs FT mob still insists on importing companies paying for new type rating for CAA staff pilots so that hasn't really changed!

PDR1 5th Feb 2018 10:35

I'm sure I remember a set of slides from either the CAA or EASA detailing the UK options in respect to EASA/IATA after brexit, but I can't seem to find it now. Can anyone point me to it?

TIA,

PDR

easaman 5th Feb 2018 16:07

Did you mean this one, PDR ?


https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Statement...ferendum-vote/

Cheers

easaman

BluFin 5th Feb 2018 19:04

Bloody hell a link on the web site that works

PDR1 6th Feb 2018 00:00


Originally Posted by easaman (Post 10042818)
Did you mean this one, PDR ?


https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Statement...ferendum-vote/

Cheers

easaman

No - it was a set of slides discussing the detailed benefits and consequences of three (I think) options for post-brexit aviation in the UK.

PDR

wrench1 6th Feb 2018 14:47


Originally Posted by PDR1 (Post 10043234)
No - it was a set of slides discussing the detailed benefits and consequences of three (I think) options for post-brexit aviation in the UK.

PDR

???
https://www.wnsdecisionpoint.com/Por...t%20Brexit.pdf

PDR1 7th Feb 2018 09:14

No again, although that was interesting (thanks!). I finally found the slides I was looking for here.

But it seems to be on a very slow server!

PDR

easaman 7th Feb 2018 09:39


Originally Posted by PDR1 (Post 10044597)
I finally found the slides I was looking for here.PDR

This document does not look like a bright future.
When you think that the Brexiteers received their result only by telling lies and bullshit, and having clowns as spearheads (he wants to build a bridge over the channel after the Brexit).
The picture of the negotiating team where the EU-Team and a pile of documents on the table, and the Brexiteers came with empty hands and did not even have an idea how to proceed, was showing the reality.

The problem is that time flies, the world is moving closer and closer, and Theresa Maybe does not have a clue how to proceed.

X-ing fingers and hope it will turn out well!
easaman

NutLoose 8th Feb 2018 20:01


Originally Posted by Rigga (Post 10041126)
No, they would not! there is no legal reason to cancel any currently approved methods and/or approvals. EASA Approved companies must, legally, be maintained as EASA Standard organisations and applications for STC should still be made to EASA authorities - the same was for FAA STCs too..what would change?

For rotorcraft; the CAAs FT mob still insists on importing companies paying for new type rating for CAA staff pilots so that hasn't really changed!

But we won't be part of EASA, that will end with Brexit and as such a lot of what we did have with EASA will come back into house, a house that is unfortunately bare.

Rigga 9th Feb 2018 18:50

If we leave EASA it will become (to UK) a Foreign Aviation Authority, which EASA would either have to:
- cancel thousands of pilot and engineer licences and company approvals....or
- leave them as normal 'foreigners' who have reached all the expected standards and qualified for that authority's licence. Renewals of EASA Approvals/Licences would be the next step...

This should happen under EASA's own Human Rights Laws for the livelihood of thousands of businesses and personnel working under EASA approvals in UK and abroad - worldwide.

If Brexit actually happens, and we become the isolated Island State again, the CAA can only put in place a plan to accept the status quo and convert all existing approvals and licences over a number of years (mainly due to their lack of capability now).

Operationally, things are slightly different as EASA may retract some travel freedoms within the EU but they cannot retract ICAO rules of access and freedoms of flight. This may give Ryanair/EZY and the like, headaches as they would have to be majority(%) EU-owned to continue with all EU airways freedoms. ATC-wise NATS controls a great deal of the northern EU regions too, so that will need sorting too.

None of the above will happen crossing over a knife-edged date...conversions to Parts 145, M and 66 each took 5-year plans to embody.

The CAA could adopt FAA or EASA Certification standards as their own. It is possible, but unlikely within any real time scale, that the CAA could rebuild its former airworthiness status as a single authority...some form of sliding process would have to be built in over a number of years/decades

Nobody is expecting this to be easy.


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