Training for Aeronautical Engineering
 

Hello John,

My username is flyaway bird and my real name is Mary. Kindly assist me on information referring to the above topic. I live in USA and one of my sons by name James, is about to complete his high school senior year, this year in May 2011.
My question is, where can he train for Aeronautical Engineering? Would you know of some colleges here in USA. He has been performing well in all his subjects Maths, English, Physics, etc.

I would really appreciate any information you may know regarding the above subject.

I thank you in advance for your kind assistance.

Mary;)

Mary posted this question in Tech Log. Probably she will get a better range of answers here from the US PE folks. Thanks and regards, J_T

I would look closely at what the U.S. military is seeking. Navy, marines, U.S.Army and the USAF. I wish him well.

A little costly but this is what you are asking for, www.erau.edu. I would suggest a more generalized degree, electronics would be great. It is generally accepted in the field of avionics. Unless structural R&D is what your son aspires to. There are soo many options and schools. It all depends on his scholastics, desires and your finances.

Hello Mary,

It's worth trying to understand what sort of Engineering he's interested in doing - our profession is pretty broad.

There are many excellent universities in the USA (and abroad - given that a university education is quite expensive in your country, it's worth looking elsewhere also - the English speaking world alone covers the UK, Canada, Australia and Ireland, all with some excellent aeronautical engineering departments), outside the English speaking world France, Germany, Brazil and others also do well.

For example, if your son's interests are in space engineering, systems, helicopters, flight test, operational management, maintenance - there are departments with specialisms in all of those. It can be a little hard to work out from the outside what those are, but a good route is to look at departmental websites and see what the professors research interests are. They tend to teach best what they research.

On that subject, there is a clear hierarchy amongst university departments - the most prestigious tend to be those with big money research going on, the next tend to be those with "okay", research, then you have the high quality teaching-only universities such as Embry-Riddle, and finally the community colleges. Don't get too hung-up about these differences, but it's useful to be aware of them, and they can certainly affect the academic fees in the USA (other countries tend to be more uniform - here in Britain, the fees tend to be pretty much the same at any university, regardless of quality).


I'm reluctant to recommend specific universities in the USA, just because there are so many, and those I've had personal contact with I only really know through particular specialisms, and are only a few of many. If your son fancies Britain for 3 or 4 years (more likely 4 for a BEng or 5 for an MEng, since the standard of maths and science in a high school graduate in the USA tends to be rather poorer than in the UK, so starting in the foundation year is likely) I can recommend looking at Southampton, (Glasgow), Loughborough (which is especially good for students with a strong sports interest), Brunel and Liverpool. All are world class and would present no problems in returning to work in the US aerospace industries.

As has also been said, the US armed forces offer excellent in-house undergraduate and graduate programmes - all four of the main services do this, and all four offer excellent career routes. Of course, an armed forces career is not for everybody, particularly in the current uncertain times, but this is well worth looking hard at.

G

Aeronautical Engineering Training
 

DERG

Thank you so much for your valued advice, my son and I will go over this suggestion.

Thanks

flyawaybird

Aeronautical Engineering Training
 

grounded27

Hi, I am so grateful for your valued advice and which is also diversified.
I will seriously look into it.

Once again, a big thank you.

Mary (flyawaybird):ok:

Genghis the Engineer

Hi there,

Thank you so much for this highly useful information. At least I have a variety of information to work on. In case he choses Britain or any of the places you have mentioned, I will let you know. I know he loves playing soccer.

I am grateful for this useful information.

Thanks.:D:ok:

Mary

Aeronautical Engineering Training
 

GengHis the Engineer,

Thank you so much for such detailed information on the vast above topic. Being a lay person in this, I did not know how wide this topic is. I am indeed very grateful for your time in writing a detailed account of the information I requested here. In fact my son read all your responses and ask me to request for further info as stated in my next paragraph. I know it is very much time consuming for you, and I do appreciate the time you have so far taken to give me this information, being a busy person. We also need to know the College websites for systems and flight test engineering in UK.

As you clearly state about the standard of education between UK and US, I can only confirm that it is verys true what you said because even my son has repeatedly told me, since our arrival here, about a year ago, how he found education here much easier. I am sure he would love to come to UK if we only we knew rought the estimates in particular about Systems Engineering and/or flight service engineering or flight test engineering.
Is it possible to get brief accounts on those two type of engineering? You see in school, when they request for info on different types of subjects they want to do in college, they are told to go to internet. At the internet unless one knows exactly which websites to browse, it can awfully take a lot of time to read the numerous details given in general. Since you, youself are an Engineer or well informed on the subject area, I would rather hear from you.

In case we find that we cannot afford, then my son and I can discuss the US Marine, Airforce, Army training. James at 18, is not of the idea to go to the armed forces for fear of being sent to the war zones. I keep on telling him that there a lot of other young people there and that not everyone dies but among his peerage, a different story is discussed.

Once again, thank you so much for being so kind to us as to relay to us such informative info.

Thank you.:D

Mary

unsolicited advice
 

The money he will make and civil experience earned will be worth the student loan. Unless his interview for the dream job happens to be held by a vet, it is a waste of time especially if he has no military aspirations.

Unsolicited advice
 

grounded27

Thank you for your advice. I guess this is where he end up eventually, on student loan. He is still going through all the advices here at PpruNe.

Flyawaybird
Aeronautical Engineering School

One school in the US that comes to mind is Purdue University. See the attactchment below:

Purdue University - Majors

Another possibility is the University of Cincinnati. They have a program in Aerospace engineering that includes aircraft. Some of the engineering programs are 5 year programs (known as Co-op Programs), where the student spends some of each year working in industry while learning and being paid to do so.
University of Cincinnati - Degree Programs

UC has a strong relationship with GE Aviation in Cincinnati. Also, GE and the University of Cincinnati (UC) are actively discussing a possible UC research facility at GE. For decades, UC and GE have collaborated on numerous aerospace research projects, while thousands of GE personnel have graduated from the university, and thousands of UC co-op students have received on-the-job training at GE. However, current discussions are focused on a possible permanent and significant UC presence at or near the GE Aviation Evendale complex.

Good luck to you and your son,

Turbine D

thankyou
 

Thankyou for the helpful info.do you know any colleges like that in any states close to new jersey?mary's son james..

Aeronautical Engineering Technology
 

Turbine D

Hi,

Thank you for the valued information you have given me. My son, has settled to University of Cincinnati or Purdue. I believe he has written to you some enquiries.

Once again, thank you. You have been very helpful.

:Dflyawaybird

Firstly on the last point (and sorry for being slow replying), in any age - and the current one is particularly no exception, anybody joining the armed or emergency services (and a few allied trades) can expect to be sent in harms way. This is a harsh fact, and if your son considers that unacceptable, then he's absolutely right not to look in that direction - it's not for everybody. Personally, it was never a major consideration for me, but I'm aware that a lot of people have a major problem with personal risk, or with the military activity.

Now, individual disciplines.

Systems engineering in a relatively new name for a very old field - it is all about integrating the numerous parts of a large complex machine (such as an aeroplane), and making them work effectively together. With the increasing complexity of modern aircraft, it's become a discipline in its own right, rather than just what senior aeronautical engineers got on and did. There are undergraduate degrees in this, but more commonly it is a specialist job people go into after graduating in something like aerospace /aeronautical engineering.

Flight Services Engineering - I really don't know, but it sounds a bit mickey mouse to me.

Flight Test Engineering (very much my own discipline) is about taking flight equipment (varying from a small black box to a whole new aeroplane) and eventually either proving that it'll do the job for which it was designed, or finding the faults with it so that other engineering disciplines can sort it out. In my entirely biased opinion, it's one of the most exciting fields to work in - but it's also one of the hardest to get into. A first degree in some aerospace engineering discipline is pretty much essential, then it is a matter of further education either on the job or via a specialist course. To a civilian, there are really two MSc programmes available and worth doing - at NPTS in California (Master of Flight Test Engineer), and at Cranfield University in Bedfordshire (MSc Flight Dynamics). There are far more options to military people, but at the same time there are many options to train up whilst working in an allied field in existing aerospace organisations.

G

flyawaybird

Hi James,

If you are looking for a university close to home that offers aeronautical engineering, you may want to consider Rutgers. They offer such a program, see attachment below:

Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering

Turbine D

flyawaybird....

Turbine D is your man on this subject. He has extensive experience.
My own son is 20, and at college, and he had plenty of help. I agree with you about needing GOOD advice. Turbine D is your man here.

As far as personal risk is concerned in the military I would discount that in your son's ambition, unless he has a fundamental moral objection.

Training for Aeronautical Engineering
 

Turbine D

Hi Turbine,

What is the difference between Aerospace Engineering and Aeronautical Engineering?

Thank you.

Mary:confused:

In most cases, no difference at-all. Aviation, Aeronautical and Aerospace Engineering, Aeronautics and Astronautics, etc. are mostly just the names different universities put on their courses.

Apart from being less likely to find space content in something without Aerospace or Astronautics in the title, it really is down to looking at the individual department and syllabus.

G

Flyawaybird

I completely agree with Genghis the Engineer on the difference in titles different universities use.

Turbine D

Sorry I haven't had time to read this full thread, but I'm finishing up Aeronautical Engineering (Aeronautics and Astronautics) at Purdue University this coming December. It's a very challenging program, but I've been interning with Boeing (BCA - 787 program) since 2009, I'm going back this summer, and I have a full-time offer for after I graduate. As someone said above, a degree in Aeronautical Engineering from a reputable school is definitely worth the tuition. Average starting salary for someone with a bachelor's degree in Aeronautical Engineering is somewhere in the neighborhood of $55-60,000.

I originally started out in Air Force ROTC as well, but that didn't work out for me due to a hearing impairment.

Purdue's program grants a diploma in "Aeronautics and Astronautics" but students choose a focus. The differences are:
Aerospace Engineering typically deals with spaceflight, orbital mechanics, rocket propulsion, etc.
Aeronautical Engineering deals with atmospheric flight, airplane design, jet propulsion, more aerodynamics, etc.
In addition, they'll both require a lot of physics, high level maths, some programming, some CAD (computer aided design), and whatever general electives the school requires. It's going to be a lot of work and doesn't really leave time for partying, but it definitely pays off.

By the by, at Boeing I've seen dozens of my classmates from Purdue, but only a handful from ERAU. I don't think ERAU is worth the money they charge for any program. I don't know what the schools are like out east, but Penn State and Virginia Tech also have very good AAE programs.

ERAU is not a big name school in those terms, that tends to be those active in aeronautical research - such as Purdue. The same is true in the UK, or most other countries.

The problem with a teaching only University such as ERAU (a UK equivalent might say be Hertfordshire or Kingston) is that the staff don't have the same day to day contact with what the real world is doing now. The advantage is that they're not distracted by their research and usually are far better teachers at delivering what they do know.

G

Yeah, from what I have seen, ERAU seems to be where people go if they want to go to a good school but don't do a very good job researching what the good schools actually are.

Mary, this may be something worth looking at. US News is generally considered the authority on national college rankings.

Best Aerospace Programs | Top Engineering Schools | US News Best Graduate Schools

Training for Aeronautical Engineering
 

K 9

Thank you so much for this most important information of the training and what it entails. I will pass the same to my son, James. He has already registered with Purdue. I am sure he will be appreciative of this message.
Once again, thank you.
mary(flyawaybird):D

Training for Aeronautical Engineering
 

GengHis the Engineer

Hi there,

Once agian I sincerely thank you for your continued support in supplying me with more information relating to Aeronautical Engineering. I will pass this important message to my son, James. He has registered in Purdue and Penn State University. He was asking me about the universities in Britain. I know that they are more expensive than in USA. What I don't know is whether they offer scholarships to students coming from developping countries.

However, I will pass on this message.

Do have a lovely day.

Mary:)

A more comprehensive list of engineering schools:

Best Engineering School Rankings | Engineering Program Rankings | US News

Interesting, apart from anything else it does show that the UK remains very competitive in academic fees for a good aeronautical engineering degree.

Comparing approximately like-with-like, Georgia Tech comes out at US$25k.pa, whilst for a UK/EU eligible student doing Aerospace Engineering at Southampton would currently cost £3.3k (yes I know that's going to go up to £6k or so), or for a non-EU student £13.8k (US$22.4k). So the UK degree cost at a top-rank University is similar or slightly cheaper for an American student to staying at home, add into which is the experience of spending time abroad, and that normally a UK degree is a year faster than in the US - which saves a lot of money.

G

MIT
 

I know MIT make many lectures available FREE if you can access "youtube". Caution is required when declaring one institution is "better" than another.

Of great importance is the fact that the student must feel COMFORTABLE in the place he/she attends. By this I mean that you cannot school a racehorse with a donkey. Some places assume a lot of competence whilst others don't.

Some are finishing schools for gifted kids who have no intention of using the skills other than to get the black type after their name and move onto other things. The MBA is popular right now.

Do not be influenced by the "good" and the "bad" classifications. Many of the "good" places produce engineers who will never actually use a tool or see a finished product.

Does the candidate ENJOY the "hands on" type of engineering or is the student a "book worm"?

On a personal note I would advise your son to stay in the U.S. But that's subjective. Does he like playing foot or basket ball?

What do football and basketball have to do with engineering?

Some colleges let you in if you are good at these.

In both countries: the UK's pre-eminent sporting University, Loughborough, also has a very good aeronautical engineering programme, for exampls.

I'd also be careful of using the word "football", it means different things in different countries.

I do absolutely agree however about getting the student matched culturally to the institution. In the UK, for example, an academically brilliant student with two left hands will do well starting his career at Imperial, whilst somebody with a much more practical than academic bent may be better at Hertfordshire or Kingston - in between institutions like Glasgow or Brunel tend to demand a reasonable balance. All four on the other hand, I'd class as "good" for this industry, even if some are rather higher in the league tables than others.

G

"Football" implies a game played with your feet and a ball. Generally speaking, most Americans don't seem to pick up on this. :ugh:


Also, I maintain that academic-type extracurricular activities are far more impressive to a potential employer than participation in intramural sports or fraternities. None of my interviewers asked me about any sports I played in high school, but they all asked me about my extracurricular activities. Some examples of great things to get involved in at college:
Purdue Solar Racing - Purdue Solar Racing
EPICS - Engineering Projects in Community Service
AIAA Student Design/Build/Fly Competition
This was my team's report: http://www.aiaadbf.org/2008_files/Rpt2-Team_Shadow_Drag_Purdue_University.pdf
I worked on the initial sizing analysis, configuration trade studies, control testing in our low speed tunnel (if you've never been inside an operating wind tunnel, it's rather fun :ok: ), and designed the payload restraint system.

I think you're right K_9, although equally nobody will be penalised for playing sport in their spare time.

There are many extracurricular projects going on around the world in universities, I particularly like the Heavy Lift Challenge in the UK, for example, and when I was a student was very involved in projects within SEDS, which definitely did me a lot of good. Not aerospace, but one of the best internationally is Formula Student.

G

Of course not--I'm just saying, I think extracurricular activities that are more academic or community-service in nature make for better resume builders.

If your son interested in studying in Europe.choose universities which are part of Pegasus groups.all these are prestigious.some of them are cheap even like delft university of technology in holland.if you need any thing specific drop a line

MIT
 

DERG

Thank you for your suggestion. This will go along way to assist him wherever he although I know right now, he intends to stay in USA. James leans on hands on much more than a book warm, although I know that he will read for exams and so does everyone. He is actually applied to all universities suggested here. Unless he is not admitted in all six, then we will consider going out of USA. As it is the colleges in question have started responding. So we will see how this fairs on.

Once again thank you for all your info.

flyawaybird.:D

MIT
 

DERG

Thank you for your suggestion. This will go along way to assist him wherever he although I know right now, he intends to stay in USA. James leans on hands on much more than a book warm, although I know that he will read for exams and so does everyone. He is actually applied to all universities suggested here. Unless he is not admitted in all six, then we will consider going out of USA. As it is the colleges in question have started responding. So we will see how this fairs on.

Once again thank you for all your info.

flyawaybird.:D

Training for Aeronautical Engineering
 

GengHis the Engineer

Hi,

Thank you for your continued assistance in the above-mentioned subject.
James has already applied to all suggested Universities here responses and is waiting for responses from various places. We also appreciates the list of Universities that you have sent to me.

However, he believes your suggestion is a real good one in case of fees being lower than in USA and also having less time at the University. He is at it, I mean applying all over. We'll see what happens and the offers he gets.

Once again, i thank you sincerely on behalf of James.

Thank you.

Bye for now.

flyawaybird:ok:

Genghis. Do you know if there any reputable distance learning degree programs available in the UK for aeronautical engineering. If not I will probably look to sign up with Embry Riddle Worldwide. So if anyone has had any experience doing distance learning with Embry I would be interested to know. Also how well regarded are Embry Degrees in the UK and/or USA?

I would highly advise against doing an undergraduate engineering program through distance learning. There is simply way too much to learn, and my experience has involved a lot of group work and classes with laboratory components.