Quit Aviation Now. There are No Jobs
 

To all would-be apprentices there are no jobs in the industry.

If you are still serious find an employer first and then do your exams.

Don't bother with a pre-vocational course and they are not worth the time or effort.

If you work hard, have a good attitude and are reliable don't expect to find work.

If you have a previous career don't bother as you won't even make an interview. Industry will discriminate (even if they are not allowed too)

Bit harsh. Jobs around if you look hard enough. Scorned perhaps???

whissper: you are preaching to the choir. tell us something we don't know

Good written english may have been an advantage....

willing to move
 

I think the key to getting a job, especially that first one, is that you have to be willing to move. And I mean not just to the big cities. You have to be flexible. Also, don't expect to start off with your dream job, you need to do your time. By the way, I found a job and so do most people who are willing to move. If you just want to stay in Brisbane or the Sunshine coast, don't bother doing the course.

Do you know any employers who are actually looking for apprentices? Don't really mind if is mechanical or avionics (would prefer avionics) but it must exist as a job.

I would be quite happily willing to move but I do not know where the jobs are. I see little value in driving around the country trying to find an apprenticeship as I don't know where to find the employers. The CASA website is broken searching for maintenance organisations. I have found the yellowpages useless as most don't really advertise. Searching the web has been useless as many don't have a web presence except maybe an email address. The Australian newspaper occasionally has a advert for an apprentice and I do make application but that is as far it goes. ALAEA doesn't really have an apprentice listing. Aviation recruitment agents don't really advertise apprenticeships as there is no money in them. Most apprenticeships seem to come from word of mouth and if you are not in the loop then you will not know. I am to a large degree dependent on my "friendly" school but they are trying to wash their hands of me.

A problem with this industry is that if you don't fit the mould you are not wanted. You can be the brightest, hardest working person but if you are not regarded as being the right stuff then employment will be impossible. Those of use who have a very different background are viewed with a degree of suspicion and put in the reject pile.

Too early to give up
 

Hi whissper
My advice to you (an advice from a young guy that has joined the industry 2 years ago and recently got licensed).
Don't give up yet I know the apprenticship is the most difficult bit, But it's as the above posts mentioned you might have to consider relocating to even outside of australia if needs must and working as a mech, It's a bit hard to think of but thats how you get by in this field you have to get subjugated at beginning, I agree with you that doing the course without being employed already is useless but you did it now and there is no turning back it's either leave or keep your hopes up in the industry and keep trying, It all comes down to you, whether you're fond of the industry and are willing to compromise or not.

Seems to me like you've convinced yourself you're going to fail, and that it's somehow everybody else's fault.

There are jobs, and there are apprenticeships. Not many I'll grant you, and employers are very selective who they take. I'll lay bets they won't take losers who spend all their time whining about how hard done by they are.

Here's a simple multi choice question for you.

If at first you don't succeeed:
[a] give up and blame everyone else
[b] keep trying, do more research, ask for advice
[c] parachuting may not the the sport for you

:)

The problem is not the industry, it is you... or more specifically your attitude.

The fact you would even post such a dumb thread shows this.

If an employer is going to invest 4 or more years into an apprentice he is certainly not going to hire someone with a bad attitude. Think about it!

Whissper,

Aviation is not for pesimists, its for optimists.
The glass isn't half empty!
If that is your attitude don't bother in this industry, we are the first sector to feel the pain when anything happens globally and the doom and gloom mentality you have you wouldn't make it very long at all!
On another note who have you tried if all you have tried is Qantas and Virgin you have not tried very hard at all.
I have seen some peopele post on this web site they have applied 3 or 4 times to qantas and still not got in!!
Have you tried John holland if its the bigger stuff you are after?
What about GA companies Australia has many of those.
You really must choose mech or avionics you can't just say oh I will take what ever, sounds like you don't know what you want to an employer not a good look.

Whissper,

I would have to agree with you, I believe you may have been sucked in by some of the big promises Aviation Australia made when they got you to pay for the course.

I sat a CASA exam there a few years ago, everything looked very pretty, LOTS of keen students but when I asked one of the teachers where they expect to find jobs for all these kids......well the conversation went rather quiet.

If I was you I would be aiming my anger more so at Aviation Australia than the industry. There is no way there is enough jobs in Australia for all the kids they are sucking in and spitting out. Its easy to take kids money and promise them everything:sad:

here we go again
 

Having retired after 40 some years as a LAE I can speak with a little insight on this topic. Had one month without a job in those years. Had to leave the UK to
Saudia for 5 years while the jobs came back on line in the UK. You must sometimes move out of the comfort zone to keep a job. Having worked with moaners they are best to stay out of it, replacing a wheel at night in wind and rain you do not want someone who wants to work somewhere else.
Maybe I was lucky but I never didn't want to go to work to play with big boys toys mind you retirement is something I have got to like if this snow would leave and I could get on the golf course again.
Keep them up boys as may want to go south for the heat this winter.
:cool:

Further comments
 

It is interesting to note the how there seem to be two differing view coming from this thread. One is that attitude is everything and with that I agree totally. The other is that the industry is not all that is cracked up to be and that training organisations are really only interested in training more students and that jobs are scarce.

Right a little bit more background for those who have not read my other posts.

I have completed both mechanical and avionics exams to EASA standard. I finished at the top of my mechanical class. I did avionics to broaden my appeal to potential employers (and to actually get a mechanical license there is a requirement to have completed Modules 3 and 4 I believe but to a lessor standard). My ultimate aim is to be qualified in both. If pressed I would prefer avionics first but it really doesn't matter.

All my instructors have rated me favourably and I have seen their evaluation of me as being excellent. I got on well with classmates, did the work, understood the tasks, worked as team player, understood the concepts, etc. I really struggle to see how this does not translate into a least an interview.

I have applied for something like 14 roles in the past year. I didn't really care where they were (e.g. NT, WA, north Qld, etc) or who they were. Despite all of the above I CANNOT get an interview. I have asked repeatedly for employer feedback and it is not readily forthcoming. In particular my agency makes out that is the responsibility of employer and not them. Yet after so many goes can they at least explain to me why I have not at least made an interview.

QANTAS recruitment is now run by HR. I failed QANTAS psychometric evaluation and only because I pressed them did I get any answers.. The days of being the best are gone and now you have to conform to a "standard". Fall outside of the standard and you are not wanted.

I've talked to local operators as far north as the Sunshine Coast and south to Coolangatta. The impression I get is the EASA is not wanted by many aviation businesses. Sure EASA is wanted by the QANTAS, Virgin Blue, Jetstar, Strategic, Australian Aerospace, Boeing and maybe a handful of other employers. Yet MOST aviation maintenance jobs are in general aviation (there are thousands more GA aircraft than RPT). Something that is not explained well, if at all, by training organisations.

I have even taken a different approach of advertising for work in the national trade paper. I got four responses. Two died immediately. One lasted a week and I spent hours trying to find a contact phone number for them. The fourth lasted about a month and half.

The CASA website for job searching is broken and has been for months. It might be fixed by Christmas but more likely next year. I've asked for a CAO listing and they say they cannot give me one (despite it being shown on the screen). Many aviation maintenance businesses don't advertise in phone books and internet adverts are not reliable. Of the emails I have sent seeking employment there would be less than a handful who have responded.

You might understand a little of my frustration, anger and bitterness. Why is it that lesser quality students are GIVEN employment (the lowest two in my class were practically given jobs) yet the more capable are still wondering what they are lacking. When half my class are employed before or when they leave the school, it leaves a very sour taste in my mouth when months later nothing has changed for me.

Have you tried looking for an unpaid apprenticeship?
I mean working as an apprentice unpaid for a certain time untill you conform to the practical experience standard and get licensed then try applying for jobs again.
They might also hire you if they found out that you're a diligent person when you're doing your apprenticship unpaid.
If you still insist on getting paid you might try applying for a technecian job abroad, there is a handful of employers outside australia with a technecian vacancy.
Just a thought.

I have had 6 employers in 25 years of aeromaintenance, ranging from defense, airline through to GA. Defense trains well but its pure luck whether you end up at a good squadron or bad one plus the qualifications gained are poorly recognized out side of defense. Of my 5 civil employers, 1 was good (GA and small airline) the others were not good places to work. Several went broke while I was there with me losing as much as $10000 each time.

I have 5 trades, several grp20 and 21 but I choose to work as a self employed electrician, wiring houses, small factories and writing plc programs.

My point is that aviation is a very low quality employer unless you get lucky, I found one good one in 25 years and I stayed until they closed the doors but I am qualified and experienced. Starting out as an apprentice is a great way to learn a trade but not only will you not get one in aviation unless you know someone but your learning a useless trade. Go and do a trade apprenticeship learning something to do with the construction industry, its well paid and the work can always be local or not, your choice.

Your correct about EASA, if the poor employers dont drive you out of the industry then CASA will.

I hate to be negative, I like fixing aircraft very much but I like being paid and not being on call 24/7 more.

Anyway, my 2 cents based on my experiences, I am sure there are engineers out there who only have glowing recommendations for the industry, I just dont know any.

cheers.:)

Listen to what CAT1234 said. Wise words.

These aircraft trades are useless in the real word and I'm with him in getting out and getting a trade that you can use anywhere.:ok:

The golden days of aircraft engineering are gone, it's going to take a long time for this industry to recover.

Interesting reading the various posts. My experience is that the industry, especially airlines are only offering a low amount of apprenticeships. It also means that the academic qualification requirement goes up. That leaves the others that used to enjoy the chance with lesser qualifications or grades on the scrap heap, because their aren't any craft/manual apprenticeship schemes. If there are, they are limited. Unless it's in manufacturing of course.
The wannabe's that decide at a later stage in life they want get involved then have to face the other route of which includes starting at the bottom and sometimes working for nothing. Airlines, MRO's and some contract agencies in some cases will take advantage of this and I would say exploit. The aviation industry in Europe is on it's knees and most work is in the Middle East, Asia or Australia and the salaries are higher as well. Obviously there is a delta in terms of working conditions and management styles between ME, Asia and Australia but thats the way it is.
To say finding another trade or career path, well that is an option, but as a lot of people said, if you try you will EVENTUALLY find somehwere or something that suits you. Having been in the industry for 34 years and having worked for 6 airlines they more or less are ALL the same. Only time will tell in the current climate and lets ALL hope we enjoy what we did in the past. I'm afraid engineering is ALWAYS the pauper and money drain in airlines and has been the cloth cap trade and are treated as such.
Don't let em grind yer down, thats what I say :ok:

There is only one thing that keeps you going in this job - PASSION
Thats why I stuck it out for 30 odd years. There's no real money for all your trouble and study. motor mechs get more than I do. I also make more fixing machines at the Ice Cream factory. But I will always look up at that Boeing or whatever flying by. Its a sickness!!

Dont give up if thats what you really want.

I have been building "homebuilt" aircraft for some time now.
Have you looked at that industry. That is the future of aviation because more people are buying those things as they are better than some of the overpriced factory airplanes. There are more people being employed every day building new prototypes.
It can also be a good start to experience for a better career!

Yeah KK, I think Boeing are trying to build a prototype as we speak, unfortunately a few years late LoL ;)