Boeing aircraft investigated
 

Some food for thought!

Source: The Australian

Damage that occurred recently with two Qantas jumbo jets has encouraged an urgent worldwide examination of Boeing aircraft that has so far uncovered similar problems in more than 40 planes. Qantas grounded the Boeing 747s last year after engineers discovered a potentially devastating 70cm crack in one aircraft's fuselage during maintenance.

The crack was in a strap used to knit sections of the fuselage together during manufacturing and could have led to a serious structural failure if left unrepaired. Marks on the damaged plane indicated the crack had grown from damage caused by the use of metal tools during repainting by previous owner Malaysia Airlines. Similar metal tool marks had now been found worldwide on 32 Boeing 737s, four 747s and seven 757s.



:sad:

Food for Thought indeed!

I believe Ryanair had a similar scare soem time ago with some of their 737-200's. These have now been permanently withdrawn from service.

I thought Ryanair still operate 732's?

According to this week's Flight, seven withdrawn from service through damage with compensation for the early retirement, 13 more to be retired.

Not wishing to start any war here, but I'm just wondering how many replies would have fallen onto this thread if it was Company A instead of B ?

This is old news guys - it was news last year here

No, that's not the news. The news is the additional "32 Boeing 737s, four 747s and seven 757s" on which similar damage has been found. And a good thing too.

Well, my bet is plenty more actualy. Why try to reduce this to A v B? What we are talking about is serious structural issues that are causing aircraft to be withdrawn from service early, whats more its not a rumour. Do you not think that this is worth discussing on a professional pilots forum?

Yes indeed (although some might think I'm not qualified to have an opinion on that matter ;) )
And I do think that as an SLF, safety matters also to me.

The point I wanted to make is that I am surprised that no discussion started at all.

I'm still thinking that if it had been company A, a heated discussion (to say the least) would have started.

This is a maintenance issue, not an aircraft issue. That is why there has been no disccussion of it.

The companies in question chose to use a substandard paintshop, and they have reaped what they sown.... The perils of contract maintenance. (not a slam on ALL contract maint, but the very real risks when costs become your number one prioirity)


Sooner or later someone will find an Airbus that visited that shop and it to will be a scratch...

A better title on the thread would most likely have drawn more comments and discussion as this is a maint issue, not an aircraft issue.

Cheers
Wino

As far as I know the design is different between the bus and the boeing which is why this is only affecting boeing planes. Someone mentioned that the paint shops were following boeing procedures/tooling - can anyone confirm that?

You're right that this may be maintenance companies looking for a quick $$$ but this is certainly something that all of us in the industry need to be aware of as people's lives are possibly at stake which will cost us all many $$$$$ across the industry if planes start breaking up.

Cejk

And from the original thread the maintainence was questioned and the firm who did it allegedly no more

by Direct Anywhere

and from Lambeth1
So if the 73's are additional ones, then it is new news.

....and the 757's

What are you wishing to do, then, exactly? Start a "reasoned discussion" between likeminded probability theorists regarding the likely outcome of something which didn't happen?

A flame war is the only logical result of your hypothetical question. So, I guess, *flame*.

Everyone else: Feel free to interupt with pertinent facts and on-subject comments at any time. We'll be over here in the sandbox throwing things and making faces.

So who do all these aircraft belong to?? Are they still in service or parked up somewhere while someone decides their fate??

I may be wrong but I was abouring under the impression that one of the RYR 200's that suffered this probem was the Jaguar aircraft...I have flown that STN-DUB recently....Are they operating under a concession from the IAA?

Flight also quotes MO'L as saying that FLS wil pay an est $10M compensation package to RYR for the damage...Interesting as the last I heard FLS were trying to sue MO'L for damages reating to his comments implicating them in the problem - a climb down or MO'L stirring again?

could someone give a Technical summary of how the problem occurred and its effects on the Aircraft?

thanks .....


ps. to think it could cause the Write-off of three 777's is mind boggling!

What ever they were doing and what ever machinery they were using there was contact with the aluminum skins of the aircraft. If you scratch it you weaken it. and create a weak point that will crack.

Do it in enough places and you total the aircraft because you would be faced with reskinning the whole aircraft, which is practically impossible.

I suspect they had some sort of automated machinery that was miscalibrated or something similar.

There are many ways of stripping paint off an aircraft, some chemical (with fierce envirnmental problems if you are in a country that cares about that) some via impact. sandblasting,( which leaves a contamination problem) I've seen CO2 (dry ice) beads used as well which later evaporate eliminating the contamination problem, but causes other problems. The impact ones are the cleanest, but improper technique will have you cutting metal. You can also have contact from the spray nozzles



Cheers
Wino

Wino, it's more simple than that. It was the use of metal scrapers (hand tools) removing sealant from lap joints that caused the damage (allegedly).
Not a cause of cost cutting IMO but more of poor training/ignorance.

WOW,

if they did that its mind boggling....

No oversight either.... You pay your money and takes your chances....


Cheers
Wino

The Boeing procedure call for using a softish plastic probe to clean out the joint. The painters use fu***ing SCRIBERS!! to do it, and whoa ho, they left scribed scores in the skin under the straps.

Can you spell Fatigue? Can you spot a stress riser?

This is the sort of thing you bawl out a jr for, or thats how it used to be.

There is a Ryanair 73-200 sitting in an FLS Dublin hangar for 1 1/2 years due to this problem. It was in for a heavy C check which included a Lap joint inspection. The procedure fir this lap joint inspection was to cut out the lap joint,s and put in a very big repair. this was easier and more cost effective than lots of medium to small repairs. This did not include the lap joints over the wings. When the lap joints over the wings were inspected they discovered damage to the skin due to knives being used to remove sealant. They then decided to inspect the butt joins for simular damage and found the same. At this stage it was decided that the A/C was not worth repairing. I looked at these knife marks on the skin myself and they were deep. This was the first Ryan Air A/C found with this damage and opened this particular can of worms. Some of the other Ryanair 73-200's were inspected in the same facility and were found to be ok, some knife marks but repairable. You can see on the Ryanair 200's which A/C have had this lap joint Inspection/repair done to them, by looking at the lap joints over and below the window belts forward and aft of the wings there is a huge repair running the legnth of where the lap joint was.

No need for eveybody to get their knickers in a knot over this one. At this juncture, all machines affected by this SB and AWD have been inspected and where required repaired and/or hauled off to the beer can factory.

For those having access to the manufacturers fleet page, the applicable SB was issued 14 March 2002 and applied to everything from the 07s, right up to the MD 90s. Time to complete the SB depended upon TCSN of the machine. These ran from 30 days to 100 flts up to 90 dyas, 300 flights.

Since the SB was mandated by "incorporation of reference" all civil authorities issued the FAA AWD and mandated these actions. So, in essentially, all aircraft still poking holes in the sky, are done.

Basically, the inspection stated that a DVI,(detailed Visual Inspection) was to be done all lap Joints, and anything noted would require LFEC or MFEC Inspection ( Low Freq or Medium Freq Eddy Current).

While this SB was kind of a surrise, the manufacturer has previously called out numerous SBs on this particular area of the aircraft. Generall, the AME's check these areas on every turnaround, B check, A Check as well as indepth inspections every C Check.

So every body relax, get back out there, get them turnin and burnin and go back to making money!!

Stay safe y'all, and ask lots of questions!!