Pressured to sign the release?
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Great stuff guys,
A dozen or so engineers who won't accept the undue pressure applied by the manager to sign under pressure or out of category. The problem is the other 5000 engineers who will!
Every time I refuse to do so some other **** is ready to jump in my grave. I then find that he is chosen before me when the boss is looking for a good Neddy to put on the next course and the next thing I know, he is my boss.
I am bloody sick of being told by my union not to break the rules and then see my rep doing all he can to bend over at every request of management. I do not and never will cross the red line but if there is any of you out there who can speak exotic Asian and Arabic langauges please pass our sentiments on to my workmate because he can't speak English.
cheers
A dozen or so engineers who won't accept the undue pressure applied by the manager to sign under pressure or out of category. The problem is the other 5000 engineers who will!
Every time I refuse to do so some other **** is ready to jump in my grave. I then find that he is chosen before me when the boss is looking for a good Neddy to put on the next course and the next thing I know, he is my boss.
I am bloody sick of being told by my union not to break the rules and then see my rep doing all he can to bend over at every request of management. I do not and never will cross the red line but if there is any of you out there who can speak exotic Asian and Arabic langauges please pass our sentiments on to my workmate because he can't speak English.
cheers
Join Date: Aug 2000
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most of us get pressured from time to time....all I can say is that with age comes experience and with experience comes confidence. ie in the long term it aint a problem, they're only tryin their luck and know they aren't right so will always back off.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Fordran,
I think on reading your post that the only advice to give in this instance is for you to look elsewhere for another employer. They obviously are not willing to respect you decision and by the sounds of it your union is as much good as a chockie fireguard.
You alone have to stand by your standards and stand your ground.It sounds crap but that is what the job entails and why you have a licence.
You may think that there are only a dozen people to stand up but I can assure you there are many more who would not hesitate to say no if undue pressure were applied and rightfully so but thankfully in todays day and age these incidents just dont happen very often thank goodness.
rwm
If your aircraft arrives with an MEL overrun then the only course of action is to ground it untill some positive action is taken (ie,defect rectified) especially if the spares are available and the item can be rectified.The aircraft is out of commision,well thats the real world for you and there are no excuses for that I'm afraid whether it was at a minor base or not.
You can always ask for a concession but this will have to go to your relevant NAA and the first question they will ask is "why do the company fell the need for this as the aircraft can be repaired at your base as you have the spares ? As this is the case various other questions will be asked and in the long run it will be quicker and less embarassing for your company to rectify the defect and accept the delay as it is.
At the end of the day I can say I have never been asked to sign anything I am not happy with and hope the situation never arises.Amongst all the engineers I have had the pleasure to meet in this industry the vast majority are professionals with a great degree of common sense who on every basis have the intelligance to base there judgements accordingly as to the situation concerned.
I am sure some idiot will prove me wrong on some occasion but that is life and I wont change my thinking just to appease him,that will be his problem.
I think on reading your post that the only advice to give in this instance is for you to look elsewhere for another employer. They obviously are not willing to respect you decision and by the sounds of it your union is as much good as a chockie fireguard.
You alone have to stand by your standards and stand your ground.It sounds crap but that is what the job entails and why you have a licence.
You may think that there are only a dozen people to stand up but I can assure you there are many more who would not hesitate to say no if undue pressure were applied and rightfully so but thankfully in todays day and age these incidents just dont happen very often thank goodness.
rwm
If your aircraft arrives with an MEL overrun then the only course of action is to ground it untill some positive action is taken (ie,defect rectified) especially if the spares are available and the item can be rectified.The aircraft is out of commision,well thats the real world for you and there are no excuses for that I'm afraid whether it was at a minor base or not.
You can always ask for a concession but this will have to go to your relevant NAA and the first question they will ask is "why do the company fell the need for this as the aircraft can be repaired at your base as you have the spares ? As this is the case various other questions will be asked and in the long run it will be quicker and less embarassing for your company to rectify the defect and accept the delay as it is.
At the end of the day I can say I have never been asked to sign anything I am not happy with and hope the situation never arises.Amongst all the engineers I have had the pleasure to meet in this industry the vast majority are professionals with a great degree of common sense who on every basis have the intelligance to base there judgements accordingly as to the situation concerned.
I am sure some idiot will prove me wrong on some occasion but that is life and I wont change my thinking just to appease him,that will be his problem.
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asheng,
I think I stated in my last post about how I and my company deals with MEL situations. They will never ask me to sign anything that is not above scrutiny. I like that. But we do have a policy in place, and it is aproved, and falls within the local law. Further more I can only get an extension if we are awaiting parts, ie have a part on order from the relavant manufacturer. I can't just postpone work because i don't feel like doing it. I do end up doing a fair amount of late shifts to fix things so the a/c is servicable for the next flight.
I think I stated in my last post about how I and my company deals with MEL situations. They will never ask me to sign anything that is not above scrutiny. I like that. But we do have a policy in place, and it is aproved, and falls within the local law. Further more I can only get an extension if we are awaiting parts, ie have a part on order from the relavant manufacturer. I can't just postpone work because i don't feel like doing it. I do end up doing a fair amount of late shifts to fix things so the a/c is servicable for the next flight.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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rwm,
Sounds like you and your company have got it sorted.Its an agreement that both you and them are happy with and obviously so are the authorities so therefore everyone wins.
It sounds like a very sensible and concerted approach to me and it is probably an example that some of the other less scupulous operators around the industry may look at following.
Good on ya
Sounds like you and your company have got it sorted.Its an agreement that both you and them are happy with and obviously so are the authorities so therefore everyone wins.
It sounds like a very sensible and concerted approach to me and it is probably an example that some of the other less scupulous operators around the industry may look at following.
Good on ya
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pressures
As an ex Crew Chief, (recently military VC 10), my answer to all the captains/managers who believe "the show must go on" is -
It is my behind on that seat and if I am not happy with the serviceability of my jet it goes nowhere.
I know you folks in the civie sector have passenger revenue to consider but the holy grail is safety and nothing should compromise it. There is the 'safe' way to get around things and there is the b
y stupid and outright dangerous way. Unfortunately, many managers can be very blinkered in their reasoning. A managers job is not to pressurise but to monitor the work throughput and seek advice from the experts. ie us when things go wrong and come to a SAFE compromise.
It is my behind on that seat and if I am not happy with the serviceability of my jet it goes nowhere.
I know you folks in the civie sector have passenger revenue to consider but the holy grail is safety and nothing should compromise it. There is the 'safe' way to get around things and there is the b
y stupid and outright dangerous way. Unfortunately, many managers can be very blinkered in their reasoning. A managers job is not to pressurise but to monitor the work throughput and seek advice from the experts. ie us when things go wrong and come to a SAFE compromise.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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I have, some yars ago in the Western part of Ireland, come under direct pressure to sign off a JT8 that failed a boroscope inspection, luckely for me, other things happened that ment it never came to a direct confrontation with the manager in question. As someone wrote, "with age comes experience and with experience comes confidence", this is very true, I was 25, and I buckeled under the pressure.
I have 2 points to make regarding this.
1 - We as professionals have to realize that pressure to sign a release is never as suttle as "Sign it or else" it is often far more cinister. Often the pressure is put on you indirectly via your roster by means of under staffing/over planning combined with ever increasing amount of cooperate "Information" stating that "in this though economy, we HAVE to be more effective", combine this with a senario of a early morning departure, slot time lots of connecting passengers, then a snag, most people do rush the T/S somewhat in this situation and guess what, 99% of the time the problem goes away, you then pen it off convincing yourself "it was probably just X or Y" this puts pressure on the next guy to do the same thing if the problem reappears, and then you start getting unairworthy aircraft flying around the sky. This leads me on to my next point.
2 - Pressure is very often brought on by ourselves. We as Engineers carry out out proffession guided by our cultural background, this means that a British engineer works in a different way to a Danish, Swedish or any other nationality, we are all diferent. With the advent of this JAR66 licence in europe, one thing that has come about, is more nationalities working together. Contracting as an Engineer in the 1980´s you would find very few other nationailties other than British, maybe a few Kiwi´s and Cannuks, but theese where the exptions. Today there is quite a few other people out the, alot of swedes, some Danes, A good few Bog trotters, Aussies, Kiwis, greeks and a whole range of people from the former eastern block countries. A lot of tension and "My c@ck is bigger than yours" come of all this. The Brits have been given a raw deal in their licence convertions, this is a fact, alot of Brits feel their livelyhood threatened by B1 AND B2 qualified scandihooligans, and rightly so, why should an accountant pay for 2 if he can get away with 1, on the other hand a lot of scandihooligangs feel that Brits carry a bucket of useless facts and trivia around, and if we need to know it will be in the manual. The point I am trying to make, is, lets try to help and learn from eachother, their is only one person benifitting from us arguing, and that is the accountant.
Brgds
Doc
I have 2 points to make regarding this.
1 - We as professionals have to realize that pressure to sign a release is never as suttle as "Sign it or else" it is often far more cinister. Often the pressure is put on you indirectly via your roster by means of under staffing/over planning combined with ever increasing amount of cooperate "Information" stating that "in this though economy, we HAVE to be more effective", combine this with a senario of a early morning departure, slot time lots of connecting passengers, then a snag, most people do rush the T/S somewhat in this situation and guess what, 99% of the time the problem goes away, you then pen it off convincing yourself "it was probably just X or Y" this puts pressure on the next guy to do the same thing if the problem reappears, and then you start getting unairworthy aircraft flying around the sky. This leads me on to my next point.
2 - Pressure is very often brought on by ourselves. We as Engineers carry out out proffession guided by our cultural background, this means that a British engineer works in a different way to a Danish, Swedish or any other nationality, we are all diferent. With the advent of this JAR66 licence in europe, one thing that has come about, is more nationalities working together. Contracting as an Engineer in the 1980´s you would find very few other nationailties other than British, maybe a few Kiwi´s and Cannuks, but theese where the exptions. Today there is quite a few other people out the, alot of swedes, some Danes, A good few Bog trotters, Aussies, Kiwis, greeks and a whole range of people from the former eastern block countries. A lot of tension and "My c@ck is bigger than yours" come of all this. The Brits have been given a raw deal in their licence convertions, this is a fact, alot of Brits feel their livelyhood threatened by B1 AND B2 qualified scandihooligans, and rightly so, why should an accountant pay for 2 if he can get away with 1, on the other hand a lot of scandihooligangs feel that Brits carry a bucket of useless facts and trivia around, and if we need to know it will be in the manual. The point I am trying to make, is, lets try to help and learn from eachother, their is only one person benifitting from us arguing, and that is the accountant.
Brgds
Doc
