BBC News report BA engineers to ballot for strike action
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BBC News report BA engineers to ballot for strike action
The six o'clock news just added as a breaking news item that engineers at LHR & LGW are to be balloted for strike.
Looks like they are all going to jump on the band wagon now, who next loaders, dispatchers ???????
Engineers responsible for maintaining BA aircraft at Heathrow and Gatwick have warned the company they will ballot for industrial action if the controversial electronic clocking-on system is imposed.
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Errrrr cabin crew actually. Members of the T&G (11-12000 of BA cabin crew) voted unanimously for a strike ballot at their last branch meeting at the beginning of the month if cabin service management impose reduced crewing levels i.e. 1 cabin crew member on every aircraft - 3 on an A320 & 11 on a 777 with no reduction in on board service. Post 9/11 the cabin crew unions did agree to reduce crewing levels temporarily e.g 12 down from 13 on a 777. The 13th crew member has returned on the most demanding routes eg MCO/BGI out of LGWbut all other routes (80% or so) have remained at 12 crew on the 777. It's tough enough trying to provide a full service to our customers at Easyjet crewing levels in the economy cabin, 4 crew for 194 pax, but 3 crew for 194 is a joke. I sincerely hope that these cuts are not imposed, because at the end of the day it will be the customers suffering despite the best efforts of the cabin crew. Virgin & SQ operate their 744s with 17+ crew......BA 15 at present.
More cuts = less service = ultimately less customers!!
More cuts = less service = ultimately less customers!!
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The quote was taken from the BA news site and I heard Sophie on the six o'clock news.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3094129.stm
Read it for yourself. I don't know about the cabin crew, they wern't mentioned.........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3094129.stm
Read it for yourself. I don't know about the cabin crew, they wern't mentioned.........
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The Engineers have already rejected the BA pay "offer " of 3% with a whole raft of conditions attached. Note that it wasn't just some Union militants which rejected it, there was a consultative ballot which BA engineers voted 96 % ( YES ....NINETY SIX PER CENT ) to reject.
One of the conditions was the complete acceptance of EWS with all the electronic clocking in and out.
There was a meeting with the mis-management today (24th July) about what ( if any ) steps that BA were to improve their offer.
Against all this it should be remembered that BA pay their their Engineers 12.5 % BELOW the average of the UK carriers.
And yes, many are taking their skills elsewhere......
It might take only six weeks to train a Check in agent, Six months for a Cabin Crew member, and two years for a Flight crew ( ab-initio to ATPL ...Co-Pilot).......but it take many years to produce a valuable qualified Licensed Engineer.
One of the conditions was the complete acceptance of EWS with all the electronic clocking in and out.
There was a meeting with the mis-management today (24th July) about what ( if any ) steps that BA were to improve their offer.
Against all this it should be remembered that BA pay their their Engineers 12.5 % BELOW the average of the UK carriers.
And yes, many are taking their skills elsewhere......
It might take only six weeks to train a Check in agent, Six months for a Cabin Crew member, and two years for a Flight crew ( ab-initio to ATPL ...Co-Pilot).......but it take many years to produce a valuable qualified Licensed Engineer.
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It might take only six weeks to train a Check in agent, Six months for a Cabin Crew member, and two years for a Flight crew ( ab-initio to ATPL ...Co-Pilot).......but it take many years to produce a valuable qualified Licensed Engineer.
Any truth in the rumour that the engineers are after 16%, or is that just airside gossip?
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Idiot statement
<<You should study harder then, you might get it down to two years like the pilots!>>
Just typical from a cadet nigel... have some respect for your professional collegues...
Just typical from a cadet nigel... have some respect for your professional collegues...
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You should study harder then, you might get it down to two years like the pilots!
hand solo
Remember if BA goes down the plug hole ,the licenced engineers are in more demand than pilots (Multi skilled).I don't see 3500 vacancies in Flight at the moment ? Suggest you remove yourself from filling in your bid form and find out whats going on in the real world around you.
hand solo
Remember if BA goes down the plug hole ,the licenced engineers are in more demand than pilots (Multi skilled).I don't see 3500 vacancies in Flight at the moment ? Suggest you remove yourself from filling in your bid form and find out whats going on in the real world around you.
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What's going on in the real world is that your customers are well pissed off with the way they are being treated so you should all stop whinging and get your asses back in gear or you'll be out of jobs.
The low cost airlines are laughing all the way to the bank.
The low cost airlines are laughing all the way to the bank.
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norman see my previous post and substitute your username for 'Shed Driver'. If the company goes t1ts up we're all in the mire together - you, me and most of the engineers. If you think otherwise then I suggest you speak to some of my former colleagues at BHX who are now redundant or on very long term gardening leave, or perhaps the chaps at MAN currently suing the company for unfair (or was it constructive) dismissal. I'm sure HOVIS can give you the full details. I'm reliably informed that decent LAE positions in the UK aren't exactly growing on trees at the moment.
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Oh how sad.
BA staff are going to have to clock in and out. Welcome to the real world where the majority of other workers have to do the same.
The only reason "clocking" is not wanted is because it removes the ability to leave work before the end of their shift. (Trapping off I believe it's called)
If you are paid to work "x" hours per week/month you should be at work for those hours and nobody can argue against it.
Yes you may have the worst management in the whole universe and have to work awkward shifts for an average salary. You all signed a BA contract and as such accepted the BA laws. How many signed up just for the benefits i.e staff travel? Now things have got a little tough you complain.
If your salary is going to be dependant on the actual hours of "Productive" work then that is a major change of contract. Similarly if you are being lead down the path of annualised hours it is also a change of contract.
It is a tough time for all airlines. You've had it too good for too long. Things must change to keep up with the times or we will suddenly see another major player in the industry written off.
IF it's that bad, vote with your feet and go get a job somewhere else.
BA staff are going to have to clock in and out. Welcome to the real world where the majority of other workers have to do the same.
The only reason "clocking" is not wanted is because it removes the ability to leave work before the end of their shift. (Trapping off I believe it's called)
If you are paid to work "x" hours per week/month you should be at work for those hours and nobody can argue against it.
Yes you may have the worst management in the whole universe and have to work awkward shifts for an average salary. You all signed a BA contract and as such accepted the BA laws. How many signed up just for the benefits i.e staff travel? Now things have got a little tough you complain.
If your salary is going to be dependant on the actual hours of "Productive" work then that is a major change of contract. Similarly if you are being lead down the path of annualised hours it is also a change of contract.
It is a tough time for all airlines. You've had it too good for too long. Things must change to keep up with the times or we will suddenly see another major player in the industry written off.
IF it's that bad, vote with your feet and go get a job somewhere else.
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Yeahbut......
" You all signed a BA contract and as such accepted the BA laws."
Your quote above completly undermines your argument.
Yes we did all sign up with BA, but now the company wants not only to move the goalposts, but to remove them altogether !
One of the conditions that BA wanted was an agreement with the workforce to implement changes now, and at any time in the future as it sees fit. I. E. just like an open cheque .
I don't know who you work for.....your profile does not specify,( I also note that you have recently joined PPrune) but I would be very surprised that you would sign up for such a situation where your employer can rip up previous agreements and impose new conditions at will, without your consultation.
On the subject of Productive Hours......... Question : When does an Aircraft earn ANY money ????
Answer......Only when it is flying.
Therefore, Aircraft maintenance has always been tailored to minimise downtime.
Quote "BA staff are going to have to clock in and out. Welcome to the real world where the majority of other workers have to do the same.
The only reason "clocking" is not wanted is because it removes the ability to leave work before the end of their shift. (Trapping off I believe it's called)
If you are paid to work "x" hours per week/month you should be at work for those hours and nobody can argue against it"
The only time we can work (or be Productive ) is when we have aircraft to work on. Sometimes the situation arises that all the scheduled and non-scheduled maintenance on the fleet of aircraft has been completed before the end of the shift and all the aircraft have been made serviceable. I.E. available to the airline to go and make some money.
Perhaps you are suggesting that we should always ground an aircraft so that we can be "Productive " ??
Strange Logic !!!
" You all signed a BA contract and as such accepted the BA laws."
Your quote above completly undermines your argument.
Yes we did all sign up with BA, but now the company wants not only to move the goalposts, but to remove them altogether !
One of the conditions that BA wanted was an agreement with the workforce to implement changes now, and at any time in the future as it sees fit. I. E. just like an open cheque .
I don't know who you work for.....your profile does not specify,( I also note that you have recently joined PPrune) but I would be very surprised that you would sign up for such a situation where your employer can rip up previous agreements and impose new conditions at will, without your consultation.
On the subject of Productive Hours......... Question : When does an Aircraft earn ANY money ????
Answer......Only when it is flying.
Therefore, Aircraft maintenance has always been tailored to minimise downtime.
Quote "BA staff are going to have to clock in and out. Welcome to the real world where the majority of other workers have to do the same.
The only reason "clocking" is not wanted is because it removes the ability to leave work before the end of their shift. (Trapping off I believe it's called)
If you are paid to work "x" hours per week/month you should be at work for those hours and nobody can argue against it"
The only time we can work (or be Productive ) is when we have aircraft to work on. Sometimes the situation arises that all the scheduled and non-scheduled maintenance on the fleet of aircraft has been completed before the end of the shift and all the aircraft have been made serviceable. I.E. available to the airline to go and make some money.
Perhaps you are suggesting that we should always ground an aircraft so that we can be "Productive " ??
Strange Logic !!!
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Read your contract. You'll find something like "this contract may be amended in the future to reflect business needs"
On the productive front. You are clouding the issue. You are paid for 40 or whatever hours a week therefore you should be at work for 40 hours. You obviously are quite prepared to take a paycut for the hours you don't attend. If there is insufficient work to keep everybody at work for the whole shift, then you are either overmanned or you require a shift pattern that matches your workload.
For your info, I am a licenced engineer and have been since the early 70's and I work at Gatwick. I am aware of the problems of aircraft maintenance, believe me there's worse places to work than BA.
On the productive front. You are clouding the issue. You are paid for 40 or whatever hours a week therefore you should be at work for 40 hours. You obviously are quite prepared to take a paycut for the hours you don't attend. If there is insufficient work to keep everybody at work for the whole shift, then you are either overmanned or you require a shift pattern that matches your workload.
For your info, I am a licenced engineer and have been since the early 70's and I work at Gatwick. I am aware of the problems of aircraft maintenance, believe me there's worse places to work than BA.
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'TRAP's are an integral part of the system. If the aircraft are all flying/servicable then there is no point EVERYBODY being there. I have worked in a lot of areas and all seem to operate it. However I haven't seen people trapping off an hour before their shift ends when there is still work to be done. On the flip side, I haven't seen people saying I need to have my lunchbreak now so all work stops and I will leave those passengers stewing on a u/s aircraft while I have my pot noodle.
Its give and take, it's worked for years and it's worked for both sides. Introduce this system and you will loose a massive amount of good will. If I don't get held up in traffic, arrive at work 20 minutes early and there is a big job on, I get straight out there and help. People will now be watching the clock and starting work bang on time and leaving bang on time. What a crock of sh!t it will all turn into.
Its give and take, it's worked for years and it's worked for both sides. Introduce this system and you will loose a massive amount of good will. If I don't get held up in traffic, arrive at work 20 minutes early and there is a big job on, I get straight out there and help. People will now be watching the clock and starting work bang on time and leaving bang on time. What a crock of sh!t it will all turn into.
Hello Hovis here, and it's all gone a bit Pete Tong since my last post.
Any way,
To quote....
"If there is insufficient work to keep everybody at work for the whole shift, then you are either overmanned or you require a shift pattern that matches your workload."
You obviously have no idea how line maintenance works do you?
I know let's work WITH enthusiasm and make sure that there is plenty of work for everyone shall we!
The last time that happened there was a fleet of 747 gliders parked outside TBJ with concrete blocks where the engines should have been, Tech1 and 2 used up all the spare wheels overnight. Believe me if I want to keep everyone fully employed for the entire shift I just ground the aircraft. Easy.
Now that is no way to run an airline is it?
Give and take by all sides with everyone being treated as adults is THE ONLY way forward.
Also for any press bods reading this.
WE ARE NOT JUMPING ON A MILITANT UNION BANDWAGON. THIS DISPUTE WITHIN ENGINEERING HAS BEEN DRAGGING ON FOR MONTHS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHECK IN STAFF.
Any way,
To quote....
"If there is insufficient work to keep everybody at work for the whole shift, then you are either overmanned or you require a shift pattern that matches your workload."
You obviously have no idea how line maintenance works do you?
I know let's work WITH enthusiasm and make sure that there is plenty of work for everyone shall we!
The last time that happened there was a fleet of 747 gliders parked outside TBJ with concrete blocks where the engines should have been, Tech1 and 2 used up all the spare wheels overnight. Believe me if I want to keep everyone fully employed for the entire shift I just ground the aircraft. Easy.
Now that is no way to run an airline is it?
Give and take by all sides with everyone being treated as adults is THE ONLY way forward.
Also for any press bods reading this.
WE ARE NOT JUMPING ON A MILITANT UNION BANDWAGON. THIS DISPUTE WITHIN ENGINEERING HAS BEEN DRAGGING ON FOR MONTHS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHECK IN STAFF.