UAL Mechanics reject deal
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UAL Mechanics reject deal
This from CNN:-
United mechanics reject pay cut
Vote could lead to an imminent bankruptcy filing if the airline can't hammer out a new deal.
November 28, 2002: 12:14 PM EST
CHICAGO (CNN) - Mechanics for United Airlines said Thursday they rejected their part of a $1.5 billion package of wage concessions designed to keep the company out of bankruptcy and qualify it for nearly $2 billion in federal loan guarantees.
United President and CEO Glenn Tilton said he was disappointed in the mechanics' decision, but would work to quickly bring another contract proposal before the group.
United's 13,000 Mechanic and Related employees, who are members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), rejected the package, with 57 percent voting against it, IAM noted in a statement released Thursday.
"Clearly, we're disappointed that our mechanic and related employees, represented by IAM District 141M, did not approve the tentative agreement with United," Tilton said. "Nevertheless, we remain fully committed to the goals of the United Airlines Union Coalition in achieving labor cost savings that will enable us to secure federally backed loans."
Two other groups of United employees who are IAM members and who represent 24,500 workers -- including customer-service agents, baggage handlers and reservation agents -- approved their portion of the wage-concession package. Ramp & Stores, Food Service and Security Guards ratified their agreements with 63.4 percent of voters approving the accords. The Public Contact Employee (PCE) group, meanwhile, also accepted their agreement, with 79.2 percent endorsing the contract, IAM said.
"Each employee measured the costs and benefits of participating in United's recovery plan," said Scotty Ford, IAM District 141-M president, in the association's statement. "In the end, some thought the risk was worth taking, and others felt they had sacrificed enough. We respect both decisions and this organization will aggressively represent their common interests as this extraordinary situation unfolds."
Saturday a vote by the rank and file of the Association of Flight Attendants is scheduled. That labor deal would save the airline about $400 million. The pilots have already ratified a labor deal designed to save the airline $2.2 billion.
United recently secured $5.2 billion in wage cuts from its employees, including five separate unions, as part of a financial recovery plan put before the Air Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB). That is a new federal agency created after the Sept. 11 attacks and charged with doling out up to $10 billion in loan guarantees.
United mechanics reject pay cut
Vote could lead to an imminent bankruptcy filing if the airline can't hammer out a new deal.
November 28, 2002: 12:14 PM EST
CHICAGO (CNN) - Mechanics for United Airlines said Thursday they rejected their part of a $1.5 billion package of wage concessions designed to keep the company out of bankruptcy and qualify it for nearly $2 billion in federal loan guarantees.
United President and CEO Glenn Tilton said he was disappointed in the mechanics' decision, but would work to quickly bring another contract proposal before the group.
United's 13,000 Mechanic and Related employees, who are members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), rejected the package, with 57 percent voting against it, IAM noted in a statement released Thursday.
"Clearly, we're disappointed that our mechanic and related employees, represented by IAM District 141M, did not approve the tentative agreement with United," Tilton said. "Nevertheless, we remain fully committed to the goals of the United Airlines Union Coalition in achieving labor cost savings that will enable us to secure federally backed loans."
Two other groups of United employees who are IAM members and who represent 24,500 workers -- including customer-service agents, baggage handlers and reservation agents -- approved their portion of the wage-concession package. Ramp & Stores, Food Service and Security Guards ratified their agreements with 63.4 percent of voters approving the accords. The Public Contact Employee (PCE) group, meanwhile, also accepted their agreement, with 79.2 percent endorsing the contract, IAM said.
"Each employee measured the costs and benefits of participating in United's recovery plan," said Scotty Ford, IAM District 141-M president, in the association's statement. "In the end, some thought the risk was worth taking, and others felt they had sacrificed enough. We respect both decisions and this organization will aggressively represent their common interests as this extraordinary situation unfolds."
Saturday a vote by the rank and file of the Association of Flight Attendants is scheduled. That labor deal would save the airline about $400 million. The pilots have already ratified a labor deal designed to save the airline $2.2 billion.
United recently secured $5.2 billion in wage cuts from its employees, including five separate unions, as part of a financial recovery plan put before the Air Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB). That is a new federal agency created after the Sept. 11 attacks and charged with doling out up to $10 billion in loan guarantees.
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Why should the mechanics take a pay cut when the government set the pay rates through the PEB. Did the government set the pay rates too high?
Should've known this thread would get moved to the basement. Not enough gold braid in it.
Should've known this thread would get moved to the basement. Not enough gold braid in it.
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Why should the mechanics take a pay cut when the government set the pay rates through the PEB. Did the government set the pay rates too high?
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JOB or paycut? Come on mechs, the ANSWER IS OUT THERE. Defer outstanding issues. This is crisis management. No point p!ssing when the pots been taken away. I pray come the 2nd a lot of people aren't thinking Groundhog............... Forget the Co. and outstanding issues. Live to fight another day, issues will not go away. Coffee's still brewing!!!!!
Good luck to all.
Good luck to all.
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Im afraid on this one to some degree I have to be sympathetic to the mechanics. They make less than the mechanics do at the local car dealer. Should they loser their job, then they can easily find a comperable paying job without the liabilities and responsibilities that come with the FAA license.
Its tragic, and a lot of my friends (Pilots) are probably in for some really hard times, but the aircraft mechanics have a lot of sympathy from me. They are the most grossly underpaid group in the airline business. The next time you get your car serviced look up the shop rates for labor. Then compare that to the 30 or so dollars an hour that the aircraft mechanics top out at. Then remember that the Aircraft mechanics generally work outside in the elements, very late at night when the aircraft is done flying for the day...
As they are still underpaid right now, why should they make even further less than an auto or truck mechanic? I don't see as they have a whole lot to lose. I certainly don't see what the payoff will be in the future.
I am much less sympathetic to the other IAM groups (bag smashers, fleet services etc...)
Cheers
Wino
Its tragic, and a lot of my friends (Pilots) are probably in for some really hard times, but the aircraft mechanics have a lot of sympathy from me. They are the most grossly underpaid group in the airline business. The next time you get your car serviced look up the shop rates for labor. Then compare that to the 30 or so dollars an hour that the aircraft mechanics top out at. Then remember that the Aircraft mechanics generally work outside in the elements, very late at night when the aircraft is done flying for the day...
As they are still underpaid right now, why should they make even further less than an auto or truck mechanic? I don't see as they have a whole lot to lose. I certainly don't see what the payoff will be in the future.
I am much less sympathetic to the other IAM groups (bag smashers, fleet services etc...)
Cheers
Wino
True Wino, and one complex problem seems to consist of cases where various employee groups are represented by the same union.
I just hope that the company can get the cash it needs to survive, and hopefully without having the government exerting much control on its Board of Directors. It had better keep its nose out of my company too.
When a company declares Chapter 11, the Bankruptcy judge can cut all contracts by a chunk, with little input from the union leaders, if I understand past airline struggles in the US. Whatever happens at United will have a significant effect upon the rest of the US airline industry, according to the Nov 27 "USA Today" newspaper's long article on airlines' troubles in the business section. Good luck United IAM and everybody else there.
I just hope that the company can get the cash it needs to survive, and hopefully without having the government exerting much control on its Board of Directors. It had better keep its nose out of my company too.
When a company declares Chapter 11, the Bankruptcy judge can cut all contracts by a chunk, with little input from the union leaders, if I understand past airline struggles in the US. Whatever happens at United will have a significant effect upon the rest of the US airline industry, according to the Nov 27 "USA Today" newspaper's long article on airlines' troubles in the business section. Good luck United IAM and everybody else there.
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I work at a station where UAL comes to borrow parts and tools, and the mechanics are all fed up with the company, the National Mediation Board, and the current union. These folks have been down in the bunkers getting shelled for so long they wouldn't recognize sunshine if they saw it. How would you feel if you always have to tread a fine line with discrepancies for fear that management may accuse you of writing too much up? How would you feel if your group gathered enough signatures for a union representational election to change to a trade union, and the current union and the government colluded to have management, planners and others (who have never paid any union dues to the current union) hastily added to the representational roster to disqualify the signature list as not having enough signatures requesting an election? The mechanics with skills and talent really have no incentive to take any paycuts. And at this point, it has become personal with them. The sad point to all of this is that it never had to get to this point if the company had paid attention to what was going on and showed some true leadership.
(Wino, if you want to compare shop rates, major airlines are around $130 to 180 USD, compared to auto dealerships of around $65 to 85 in the same metro areas. With the last round of pattern bargaining aircraft mechanics will make about the same as auto mechanics, but less that UPS airfreight mechanics, even though an airplane-is-an-airplane-etc. Still, about the same as skilled trades in the US in large metro areas. I'm also not so sure auto service managers would put up with the same amount of donut eaters as the airlines do. Thanks none the less for rallying on the mechanics' side. If you can ignore the bad apples in my group, I'll ignore the ones in yours.)
(Wino, if you want to compare shop rates, major airlines are around $130 to 180 USD, compared to auto dealerships of around $65 to 85 in the same metro areas. With the last round of pattern bargaining aircraft mechanics will make about the same as auto mechanics, but less that UPS airfreight mechanics, even though an airplane-is-an-airplane-etc. Still, about the same as skilled trades in the US in large metro areas. I'm also not so sure auto service managers would put up with the same amount of donut eaters as the airlines do. Thanks none the less for rallying on the mechanics' side. If you can ignore the bad apples in my group, I'll ignore the ones in yours.)
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Union Goon,
How would I feel if I had to tread a fine line?......
Well, let me just say that as a former pilot for an FAR 121 Carrier, I resigned because so much pressure was put on me to complete flights with an unairworthy a/c...
The most recent example of this was when I reviewed the a/c logbook prior to a flt from DTW to CVG and I realized no oil had been put in any of the (3) JT8-D's for 7 days.
What brought this fact to my attention was the contract mechanic on site saying he wasn't going to sign off the daily or a/w check, as there was no oil or skydrol available to him to service the a/c.
The company decided the (P)F/E could do a "one time" sign off. I advised the PFE (a mate of mine) that if he were to do this I wanted to see him inspect the bits that were supposed to be inspected, and by the way, add some oil.
He declined the invitation to put his name on the line, and as a result I resigned. (long story short).
The answer to this age old question is to talk with your feet. It may not help you, but may save the next guys life...
How would I feel if I had to tread a fine line?......
Well, let me just say that as a former pilot for an FAR 121 Carrier, I resigned because so much pressure was put on me to complete flights with an unairworthy a/c...
The most recent example of this was when I reviewed the a/c logbook prior to a flt from DTW to CVG and I realized no oil had been put in any of the (3) JT8-D's for 7 days.
What brought this fact to my attention was the contract mechanic on site saying he wasn't going to sign off the daily or a/w check, as there was no oil or skydrol available to him to service the a/c.
The company decided the (P)F/E could do a "one time" sign off. I advised the PFE (a mate of mine) that if he were to do this I wanted to see him inspect the bits that were supposed to be inspected, and by the way, add some oil.
He declined the invitation to put his name on the line, and as a result I resigned. (long story short).
The answer to this age old question is to talk with your feet. It may not help you, but may save the next guys life...
Union Goon
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I am unsure of the question DI3G...
Are you mad at the mechanic that wouldn't sign the aircraft because he didn't have the parts required to do what he was signing for (a demonstration of integrity by said mechanic) or mad at management for putting him in that situation? If it is the latter, you are absolutely right.
My understanding is that at the moments the United mechanics are walking on egshells because they are getting second guessed for every part they change. That ain't good. On a car you don't change a part, not a big deal... car breaks down, garage makes money towing car back to garage to be serviced. Do it on an aircraft and the best you can hope for is to lose your license (and lively hood) and worse is the lives involved.
You want to see an unhappy group of mechanics? Watch the guys who are questioned after an aircraft goes down. There were a lot of shell shocked looking mechanics running around JFK in the aftermath of the crash of 587...I am sure there were similarly unhappy people after all crashes (Alaska air and the jackscrew come to mind)...
There are plenty of **** poor managements types out there. Unfortunately safety (especially in maint) is a balance sheet item. Its not an absolute. An Airline doesn't make any money being safer than the barest minimum required...
I always carried a credit card in my pocket to get me home at all my jobs flying as well. Fortunately it never came down to it, but I was always ready to leave in a second if I thought something was unsafe or blatantly illegal. I have been lucky in my employers, though I saw first hand what was going on at some of the other places. Saw a particularly disgusting scene at LakeCity Florida once when picking up one of our aircraft...
Cheers
Wino
Are you mad at the mechanic that wouldn't sign the aircraft because he didn't have the parts required to do what he was signing for (a demonstration of integrity by said mechanic) or mad at management for putting him in that situation? If it is the latter, you are absolutely right.
My understanding is that at the moments the United mechanics are walking on egshells because they are getting second guessed for every part they change. That ain't good. On a car you don't change a part, not a big deal... car breaks down, garage makes money towing car back to garage to be serviced. Do it on an aircraft and the best you can hope for is to lose your license (and lively hood) and worse is the lives involved.
You want to see an unhappy group of mechanics? Watch the guys who are questioned after an aircraft goes down. There were a lot of shell shocked looking mechanics running around JFK in the aftermath of the crash of 587...I am sure there were similarly unhappy people after all crashes (Alaska air and the jackscrew come to mind)...
There are plenty of **** poor managements types out there. Unfortunately safety (especially in maint) is a balance sheet item. Its not an absolute. An Airline doesn't make any money being safer than the barest minimum required...
I always carried a credit card in my pocket to get me home at all my jobs flying as well. Fortunately it never came down to it, but I was always ready to leave in a second if I thought something was unsafe or blatantly illegal. I have been lucky in my employers, though I saw first hand what was going on at some of the other places. Saw a particularly disgusting scene at LakeCity Florida once when picking up one of our aircraft...
Cheers
Wino
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Wino,
Unfortunately the outfit I used to work at was not a union shop, and our only "safety" comittee so to speak was the FAA, and they don't want to seem to know.
In any case, I sat in the trailer with the said mechanic and told him I was 100% behind him. His situation was he was working for a major cargo carrier and we were sub-contracted by this carrier. As a result he had the responsibility to oversee the daily's and a/w's on our 727.
I told him flat out I wouldn't risk my license for a cr@p outfit like mine if I were him. He agreed.
As a result of the a/c being grounded on the Wed before Thanksgiving (the #2 compass system was the main culprit) I felt I had had enough and tendered my resignation last Monday.
Interestingly enough, another Capt and crew flew it out Wed night, which just goes to show that there are still Wh@res out there with no integrity.
With the way my former company operates I hope I'm wrong but it won't be long until there will be a serious (or worse) incident coming.
By the way, this company is starting to hire all F/E's and F/O's directly out of one of those "pay for training" FAR 142 schools, so the Capt's that stay have got a lot of babysitting to do this winter.
YIP down to mins with a packed rwy and blowing snow is not the place for a 250 total time F/O...
Unfortunately the outfit I used to work at was not a union shop, and our only "safety" comittee so to speak was the FAA, and they don't want to seem to know.
In any case, I sat in the trailer with the said mechanic and told him I was 100% behind him. His situation was he was working for a major cargo carrier and we were sub-contracted by this carrier. As a result he had the responsibility to oversee the daily's and a/w's on our 727.
I told him flat out I wouldn't risk my license for a cr@p outfit like mine if I were him. He agreed.
As a result of the a/c being grounded on the Wed before Thanksgiving (the #2 compass system was the main culprit) I felt I had had enough and tendered my resignation last Monday.
Interestingly enough, another Capt and crew flew it out Wed night, which just goes to show that there are still Wh@res out there with no integrity.
With the way my former company operates I hope I'm wrong but it won't be long until there will be a serious (or worse) incident coming.
By the way, this company is starting to hire all F/E's and F/O's directly out of one of those "pay for training" FAR 142 schools, so the Capt's that stay have got a lot of babysitting to do this winter.
YIP down to mins with a packed rwy and blowing snow is not the place for a 250 total time F/O...
Swounger
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And I see United is just getting slapped with a fine for flying unairworthy planes. I heard they used duct tape? I hope this isn't true.
"According to a statement from the FAA, United employees in March improperly fixed some small holes they found on the wings of the planes, in the spoiler sections."
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/021204/na_fi...ed_fine_1.html
"According to a statement from the FAA, United employees in March improperly fixed some small holes they found on the wings of the planes, in the spoiler sections."
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/021204/na_fi...ed_fine_1.html
