B2 Avionics

[hatton]

How common is today to be a B2 engineer working in the UK? Are there B2 engineers around or does it tend to be mostly B1s and A-Licensed Mechs? Thanks.

[MAC 40612]

Originally Posted by hatton

How common is today to be a B2 engineer working in the UK? Are there B2 engineers around or does it tend to be mostly B1s and A-Licensed Mechs? Thanks.

The Larger UK airlines [BA, VS etc] are still operating with separate B2 engineers and I know BA [at Heathrow] are always desperately short of B2 engineers and if you were prepared to work night shifts you could probably get a job there starting tomorrow! So if you're prepared to work/live in probably the most expensive part of the UK, then you'll be okay as a B2 [BA are nowhere near the best payers in the UK as far as engineers go but they're okay] BA will also send you on numerous type courses, although they have now started to 'bond' people for a few years after the courses as they were getting so many that would take the type courses and then leave shortly afterwards.

BA engineering operates the following grades

B1 LAE
B2 LAE
B1/B2 LAE
A licenced Technician
A licenced Mechanic
Mechanic

[hatton]

Thanks, what is the difference at A Licensed Mechanic and Technician at BA?

[HOVIS]

Originally Posted by hatton

Thanks, what is the difference at A Licensed Mechanic and Technician at BA?

The Technician grade is a legacy from an older grading system before the term 'Mechanic' became standard. However, within BA there are 'A' licenced Technicians and also 'B1' Licenced Technicians. Or at least, there used to be before I left, Generally, 'B1' Technicians are paid a lower wage than LAEs because they only certify their own work and do not lead a team or supervise others.

[MAC 40612]

Originally Posted by HOVIS

The Technician grade is a legacy from an older grading system before the term 'Mechanic' became standard. However, within BA there are 'A' licenced Technicians and also 'B1' Licenced Technicians. Or at least, there used to be before I left, Generally, 'B1' Technicians are paid a lower wage than LAEs because they only certify their own work and do not lead a team or supervise others.

Yes, sorry, forgot to include B1 Licenced Technicians, as it was only re-introduced in recent years [it was a grade that was in use years ago at BA as a 'CLT' Certifying Lead Tradesman, that were full licence without type holders [equivalent to a B licence today] and could sign off their own work but did not lead a team. They did away with it [unwisely in my opinion] as it was always a good step, so that when you first became a full licence holder you were not expected to jump straight into a grade that meant leading a team as well as taking on all the responsibilities of having a full licence. As HOVIS stated it was re-introduced so that step is back again.

[hatton]

Are the A Licensed Techs and Mechanics all doing B1 work i.e. airframe, engines and electrical or are some Avionics doing B2 at British Airways. Can you do avionics on an A licence or even as an unlicensed mech?

[HOVIS]

From what I remember, the A Licence was based on what were called "limited and simple tasks".
There used to be a list of about 20 items that could be certified on type. EG. A wheel change. I can't think of any particular B2 items on the list though. The CAA website may tell you more.

[hatton]

Look like they can do a lot: Here are 20 items that an aircraft engineer with a Category A licence can do:

1. Perform functional checks
2. Conduct operational checks
3. Replace components
4. Troubleshoot faults
5. Rectify defects
6. Carry out scheduled maintenance checks
7. Perform unscheduled maintenance checks
8. Carry out minor repairs
9. Carry out minor modifications
10. Service aircraft systems
11. Release aircraft for service
12. Inspect airframe structure for damage
13. Evaluate different levels of damage classes
14. Perform different structure repairs
15. Perform different corrosion protective treatment on different elements of airframe structures
16. Inspect/ test coating (tension, loose fabric, cracks)
17. Prepare/ perform finishing of repair
18. Perform balancing after repair /painting
19. Use avionic test equipment
20. Carry out wiring changes/upgrades.

[HOVIS]

I could be wrong but are not some of those items limited to the working environment too.
I think an 'A' licence can only sign for a Daily check on the line but in a base environment they can sign a weekly? Is that right?
Also, I'm not sure that list has any specific B2 items in it

[hatton]

I’m really looking at whether you could do line maintenance specialising in Avionics with an A License. I like electrical work, but not keen on sheet metal work, so not keen on base maintenance.

[HOVIS]

Electrical systems are now part of the B1.
Don't worry about tin bashing, these days they tend to be specialists. Also, as we move towards more CFRP construction (787/350) they days of doing skin repairs are receding.

[NutLoose]

B2 are in short supply, do you have or have you done any B2 work?

[woptb]

A licensed mechs

Lifted from the CAA 145 regs, with a tiny bit of editing by me - CAA AMC.145.30(g)
Minor scheduled line maintenance means any minor scheduled inspection/check up to and including a weekly check specified in the aircraft maintenance programme. For aircraft maintenance programmes that do not specify a weekly check, the CAA will determine the most significant check that is considered equivalent to a weekly check.

2. Typical tasks permitted after appropriate task training to be carried out by the 66.A.20(a)(1) and the 66.A.20(a)(3)(ii) personnel for the purpose of these personnel issuing an aircraft certificate of release to service as specified in 145.A.50 as part of minor scheduled line maintenance or simple defect rectification are contained in the following list:

(a) Replacement of wheel assemblies.

(b) Replacement of wheel brake units.

(c) Replacement of emergency equipment.

(d) Replacement of ovens, boilers and beverage makers.

(e) Replacement of internal and external lights, filaments and flash tubes.

(f) Replacement of windscreen wiper blades.

(g) Replacement of passenger and cabin crew seats, seat belts and harnesses.

(h) Closing of cowlings and refitment of quick access inspection panels.

(i) Replacement of toilet system components but excluding gate valves.

(j) Simple repairs and replacement of internal compartment doors and placards but excluding doors forming part of a pressure structure.

(k) Simple repairs and replacement of overhead storage compartment doors and cabin furnishing items.

(l) Replacement of static wicks.

(m) Replacement of aircraft main and APU aircraft batteries.

(n) Replacement of in-flight entertainment system components other than public address.

(o) Routine lubrication and replenishment of all system fluids and gases.

(p) The de-activation only of sub-systems and aircraft components as permitted by the operator's minimum equipment list where such de-activation is agreed by the CAA as a simple task.

(q) Inspection for and removal of de-icing/anti-icing fluid residues, including removal/closure of panels, cowls or covers or the use of special tools.

(r) Any other task agreed by the CAA as a simple task for a particular aircraft type. This may include defect deferment when all the following conditions are met:

— There is no need for troubleshooting; and

— The task is in the MEL; and

— The maintenance action required by the MEL is agreed by the CAA to be simple.

In the particular case of helicopters, and in addition to the items above, the following:
(s) removal and installation of Helicopter Emergency Medical Service (HEMS) simple internal medical equipment.

(t) removal and installation of external cargo provisions (i.e., external hook, mirrors) other than the hoist.

(u) removal and installation of quick release external cameras and search lights.

(v) removal and installation of emergency float bags, not including the bottles.

(w) removal and installation of external doors fitted with quick release attachments.

(x) removal and installation of snow pads/skid wear shoes/slump protection pads.

No task which requires troubleshooting should be part of the authorised maintenance actions. Release to service after rectification of deferred defects should be permitted as long as the task is listed above.

3. The requirement of having appropriate aircraft-rated certifying staff qualified as category B1, B2, B2L, B3, L, as appropriate, in the case of aircraft line maintenance does not imply that the organisation must have B1, B2, B2L, B3 and L personnel at every line station. The MOE should have a procedure on how to deal with defects requiring those categories of certifying staff.

4. The CAA may accept that in the case of aircraft line maintenance an organisation has only B1, B2, B2L, B3 or L certifying staff, as appropriate, provided that the CAA is satisfied that the scope of work, as defined in the MOE, does not need the availability of all those categories of certifying staff. Special attention should be taken to clearly limit the scope of scheduled and non-scheduled line maintenance (defect rectification) to only those tasks that can be certified by the available category of certifying staff.
=====================================
The scope of work will vary, dependant on CAA approval. A mechs can only certify for work they have personally conducted. A mechs can’t certify in a base environment.

[MAC 40612]

Originally Posted by hatton

Look like they can do a lot: Here are 20 items that an aircraft engineer with a Category A licence can do:

1. Perform functional checks
2. Conduct operational checks
3. Replace components
4. Troubleshoot faults
5. Rectify defects
6. Carry out scheduled maintenance checks
7. Perform unscheduled maintenance checks
8. Carry out minor repairs
9. Carry out minor modifications
10. Service aircraft systems
11. Release aircraft for service
12. Inspect airframe structure for damage
13. Evaluate different levels of damage classes
14. Perform different structure repairs
15. Perform different corrosion protective treatment on different elements of airframe structures
16. Inspect/ test coating (tension, loose fabric, cracks)
17. Prepare/ perform finishing of repair
18. Perform balancing after repair /painting
19. Use avionic test equipment
20. Carry out wiring changes/upgrades.

At BA, especially in the hangar areas, they still operate separate Avionic gangs, normally with a B2 running a small gang of a couple of A licenced Techs or mechanics who tend to only carry out Avionic work. This is mainly because, the hangar work tends to be more in depth [fault finding, scheduled checks, software updates etc] that are more suited to staff who are basically Avionic by trade [whether a B2, A licence holder or mechanic] Over in the terminals the structure is less rigid but they still do operate Avionic gangs with a B2 and their staff tend to mainly do Avionic work.

Be aware now that the shift pattern for new recruits at BA now in the majority of cases, is 12 hour shifts, 2 days/2 nights then four off.

[hoistop]

B2 are sought after everywhere methinks. Always a shortage.