Robin DR400 restoration
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Robin DR400 restoration
Hello all. Andy here, new to the forum.
I've come into possession of a 1972 Robin DR400 160 in a bit of a sorry state having not been flown for 15 years and I'm looking into what is involved in getting it airworthy. I understand it'll be difficult to give indications as to what is involved from a physical point of view without inspection but I'm more looking for general advice as to legalities of what can and can't be done and the processes I may need to follow. The last C of A was 1999 with 1125 hours from new and log books are missing.
I've been approached by a competent but unqualified 3rd party who would like to take this on as a project in return for a share but I'd like to independently satisfy myself as to what the whole thing entails and remain objective and unemotional.
Engine wise I believe this will need to be sent away to be fully rebuilt and zero houred and there is little can be done to reduce costs in this area.
With respect to work on the airframe is this something that a competent DIYer will be allowed to do? A report made in 2008 indicated that the spruce itself appeared to be in good condition after inspection without a full strip down but the surface covering would be in need of replacing and therefore repainting.
That's the background so I guess what I'm really asking is will a competent DIYer be allowed to undertake any work restoring an aircraft such as this and if so is there anything they are not allowed to do? Secondly if they are allowed what would be the steps required in order to comply with the requirements to obtain a c of a? Would it be possible for a qualified engineer to supervise the work in stages and are any likely to do this? I don't believe the economics would allow a repair under commercial terms and this is possibly the only hope of the aircraft flying again.
Thanks in advance
- Andy
I've come into possession of a 1972 Robin DR400 160 in a bit of a sorry state having not been flown for 15 years and I'm looking into what is involved in getting it airworthy. I understand it'll be difficult to give indications as to what is involved from a physical point of view without inspection but I'm more looking for general advice as to legalities of what can and can't be done and the processes I may need to follow. The last C of A was 1999 with 1125 hours from new and log books are missing.
I've been approached by a competent but unqualified 3rd party who would like to take this on as a project in return for a share but I'd like to independently satisfy myself as to what the whole thing entails and remain objective and unemotional.
Engine wise I believe this will need to be sent away to be fully rebuilt and zero houred and there is little can be done to reduce costs in this area.
With respect to work on the airframe is this something that a competent DIYer will be allowed to do? A report made in 2008 indicated that the spruce itself appeared to be in good condition after inspection without a full strip down but the surface covering would be in need of replacing and therefore repainting.
That's the background so I guess what I'm really asking is will a competent DIYer be allowed to undertake any work restoring an aircraft such as this and if so is there anything they are not allowed to do? Secondly if they are allowed what would be the steps required in order to comply with the requirements to obtain a c of a? Would it be possible for a qualified engineer to supervise the work in stages and are any likely to do this? I don't believe the economics would allow a repair under commercial terms and this is possibly the only hope of the aircraft flying again.
Thanks in advance
- Andy
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Assuming on UK register
If you really wanted to get this aircraft flying again, you would be best advised to seek out a sympathetic Part M organisation who would allow you to do some of the work under supervision. Make sure they or you get the CAA involved before starting. This aircraft is designated as an EASA type and would require an Annual Review Certificate (ARC not CofA) to be issued. Completing the ARC demands full research into the aircraft's history with regard to ADs, lifed components, etc so make sure you have the aircraft log books. From memory certain DR series aircraft suffered spar problems and required significant modifications. There are also problems with obtaining parts for these aircraft as the company has gone through various bankruptcy issues.
I believe this project would not be economically viable but if you enjoy a challenge and are sentimental about this particular aircraft it could be doable.
I believe this project would not be economically viable but if you enjoy a challenge and are sentimental about this particular aircraft it could be doable.
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In theory the engine could carry on if used as a private aircraft however a lack of logs, time sat and possible AD's etc would tend steer one to overhauling it, but before you even touch that you need to ascertain the state of play with the airframe etc..
How long has it sat, indoors outdoors etc, you may have corrosion issues... Plus its a Robin with the probs listed above, it makes you wonder if the last owner got scared with a large bill coming up and retired it..
As said you really need a licenced engineer on board or part M Company who may accept help from you both on the labour intensive stuff to keep down your costs, they will be able to do a survey on the aircraft, check what's due AD and SB wise and let you know, may cost a couple of hundred, but if it saves you thousands of wasted pounds then its worth it.
And you will probably find the CAA will want to view the aircraft. The aircraft will have moved from a CAA to EASA C off A in the time it has sat, you will also need to figure into your budget things like Prop Overhaul ( gone are the days of on condition )
As for missing logs you will need to talk to the CAA and come up with an hours figure, you will need to satisfy all the ADs etc have been complied with...
To help you along you can get an idea of EASA Ad's by doing searches here for the Airframe, Engine, Prop....
EASA Airworthiness Directives Publishing Tool
For US AD's on the engine etc go to
Airworthiness Directives
Also the last owner may know where the books are, do a reg search here
GINFO Database Search | Aircraft Register | Operations and Safety
You can get the owners addresses from that.
With the date of the Annual the CAA might be able to tell you the company that did it, they may fill in some of the blanks and may even hold the books..
Good luck with it and I hope the two replies fill in a few blanks, but don't expect it to be cheap to do.
How long has it sat, indoors outdoors etc, you may have corrosion issues... Plus its a Robin with the probs listed above, it makes you wonder if the last owner got scared with a large bill coming up and retired it..
As said you really need a licenced engineer on board or part M Company who may accept help from you both on the labour intensive stuff to keep down your costs, they will be able to do a survey on the aircraft, check what's due AD and SB wise and let you know, may cost a couple of hundred, but if it saves you thousands of wasted pounds then its worth it.
And you will probably find the CAA will want to view the aircraft. The aircraft will have moved from a CAA to EASA C off A in the time it has sat, you will also need to figure into your budget things like Prop Overhaul ( gone are the days of on condition )
As for missing logs you will need to talk to the CAA and come up with an hours figure, you will need to satisfy all the ADs etc have been complied with...
To help you along you can get an idea of EASA Ad's by doing searches here for the Airframe, Engine, Prop....
EASA Airworthiness Directives Publishing Tool
For US AD's on the engine etc go to
Airworthiness Directives
Also the last owner may know where the books are, do a reg search here
GINFO Database Search | Aircraft Register | Operations and Safety
You can get the owners addresses from that.
With the date of the Annual the CAA might be able to tell you the company that did it, they may fill in some of the blanks and may even hold the books..
Good luck with it and I hope the two replies fill in a few blanks, but don't expect it to be cheap to do.
Last edited by NutLoose; 2nd Jun 2013 at 10:57.
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Also keep in mind any instruments and avionics that may need fixing/replacing. They don't like sitting around doing nothing like engines either, especially as long as your Robin has. Put that into your budget. Best of luck with it! 
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Thanks for the tips everybody.
I've managed to trace the radio, transponder and ADF that weren't in the aircraft but all are marked inoperative and I'm not sure they would have been much use in any case.
I also unearthed a log of all flights since 1974 to it's final flight in 1996 and a running tachometer reading. Amongst this find was also a photocopy of sections of the engine log book from 1987 where some service work is stamped and signed with airframe and engine and airframe hours noted as 1114 and 1087 hours respectively. The airframe and engine log books themselves are still missing but there is now a record of the total hours up to the present day. I've since learned that the last engineering company that did any work has gone into administration so I fear the log books themselves may be permanently lost.
Here's a photo of inside the fuselage after removing the inspection panel.
I've managed to trace the radio, transponder and ADF that weren't in the aircraft but all are marked inoperative and I'm not sure they would have been much use in any case.
I also unearthed a log of all flights since 1974 to it's final flight in 1996 and a running tachometer reading. Amongst this find was also a photocopy of sections of the engine log book from 1987 where some service work is stamped and signed with airframe and engine and airframe hours noted as 1114 and 1087 hours respectively. The airframe and engine log books themselves are still missing but there is now a record of the total hours up to the present day. I've since learned that the last engineering company that did any work has gone into administration so I fear the log books themselves may be permanently lost.
Here's a photo of inside the fuselage after removing the inspection panel.
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Andy, have a look here if you've not already done so;
The DR 300/400 Nosewheel Series
They have a mailing list and it would be good to talk to other owners and above all, good luck! It would be all too easy to just scrap the old girl for parts, of course if she was on a Permit you could do all kinds of stuff yourself, but as others here have already said, being still EASA certified, despite the lack of availability of new manufacture parts now, means that you'll have to enlist a Part M company to help you.
I've got a couple of unwanted avionic bits spare which may help you if they're of any use. (KMA24's etc...)
The DR 300/400 Nosewheel Series
They have a mailing list and it would be good to talk to other owners and above all, good luck! It would be all too easy to just scrap the old girl for parts, of course if she was on a Permit you could do all kinds of stuff yourself, but as others here have already said, being still EASA certified, despite the lack of availability of new manufacture parts now, means that you'll have to enlist a Part M company to help you.
I've got a couple of unwanted avionic bits spare which may help you if they're of any use. (KMA24's etc...)
