MA and Rolls Royce - Apprenticeship Decision
It depends Adam, an experienced B1/B2 who is prepared to travel and work all the hours possible can earn well in excess of £80,000 and year. Maybe more. Without the License you will not earn anywhere near that. An unlicensed mechanic working hands on will not get half of that. Genghis will give you a better idea of what a degree will do for you but in my experience a degree will not lead you to working hands-on.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
It depends what you mean by "hands on".
If you want to fix aeroplanes, don't do a degree, it's a waste of time, money and energy.
There are however plenty of people with degrees who are for example spending their lives in a lab - designing and testing equipment prototypes, wind tunnel testing models, managing trials. I spent quite a few years in a flying suit, using what I learned on my degree sat with a Test Pilot, managing flight trials - I certainly didn't anticipate when I graduated in 1992 that by 1995 I'd be earning part of my living strapped into a fast jet, and some of working on an aircraft carrier.
On the other hand, there are also plenty of people with degrees who spend their life sat at a desk in front of a computer, and a proportion of people with licences who do the same.
If you don't want to sit at a desk much, then your best bet is an apprenticeship, but research lab work is one of the things a degree can get you into, and can be incredibly rewarding - and certainly rarely involves sitting at a desk or wearing a suit.
Engineers with a degree and a lot of practical experience probably do have the best choice of jobs. They've also spent a lot of years studying, and that's not to everybody's taste - either a licence or a degree will take 4+ years, and then you need experience as well as your degree/licence before you have much choice of jobs or a decent salary. In either case, you really need to WANT to work in this industry, just to see your way through the training.
An apprenticeship with Rolls or Marshalls should put you very hands on - mostly in build or maintenance. There will be options if you do well to switch to management or labwork, the latter particularly at Rolls. I can think of worse jobs than testing prototype jet engines.
G
If you want to fix aeroplanes, don't do a degree, it's a waste of time, money and energy.
There are however plenty of people with degrees who are for example spending their lives in a lab - designing and testing equipment prototypes, wind tunnel testing models, managing trials. I spent quite a few years in a flying suit, using what I learned on my degree sat with a Test Pilot, managing flight trials - I certainly didn't anticipate when I graduated in 1992 that by 1995 I'd be earning part of my living strapped into a fast jet, and some of working on an aircraft carrier.
On the other hand, there are also plenty of people with degrees who spend their life sat at a desk in front of a computer, and a proportion of people with licences who do the same.
If you don't want to sit at a desk much, then your best bet is an apprenticeship, but research lab work is one of the things a degree can get you into, and can be incredibly rewarding - and certainly rarely involves sitting at a desk or wearing a suit.
Engineers with a degree and a lot of practical experience probably do have the best choice of jobs. They've also spent a lot of years studying, and that's not to everybody's taste - either a licence or a degree will take 4+ years, and then you need experience as well as your degree/licence before you have much choice of jobs or a decent salary. In either case, you really need to WANT to work in this industry, just to see your way through the training.
An apprenticeship with Rolls or Marshalls should put you very hands on - mostly in build or maintenance. There will be options if you do well to switch to management or labwork, the latter particularly at Rolls. I can think of worse jobs than testing prototype jet engines.
G
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Whatever I choose I'll be doing an apprenticeship. But what I meant was do I do one that allows me to get a degree, or allows me to become an LAE?
Both apprenticeships will include 4 years experience etc.
But what is better to have?
Adam
Both apprenticeships will include 4 years experience etc.
But what is better to have?
Adam
Nobody can answer that but you... A degree was best for me, plenty of the other people here are having great careers with licences.
There is no absolute 'best'.
G
There is no absolute 'best'.
G
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I can see exactly what you're saying. It seems neither degree or licence are better than the other. I guess really I just need to decide which apprenticeship would offer me the most interest and put me in the best place for a career?
I'm glad to have found this helpful forum
Adam
I'm glad to have found this helpful forum
Adam
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Another quesiton I have, but I thought it best to post here rather than start a new topic.
I've been doing some more reading, and would I be right in saying that people who are currently just starting out and obtaining their licences are finding it difficult to secure jobs, or the experience to complete their licences?
Thanks, Adam
I've been doing some more reading, and would I be right in saying that people who are currently just starting out and obtaining their licences are finding it difficult to secure jobs, or the experience to complete their licences?
Thanks, Adam
Everybody has that problem in aviation - pilots, maintenance engineers, aeronautical engineers...
You need the qualification, but you also need the experience - without which you are a well qualified tea boy. Getting that first couple of years of experience is a real struggle.
G
You need the qualification, but you also need the experience - without which you are a well qualified tea boy. Getting that first couple of years of experience is a real struggle.
G
It is true that currently it’s a fairly tough time to be starting out in the aircraft maintenance industry. Certain companies have cut right back on apprenticeships and I’m aware of some contractors (non-licensed) who have had fairly recent cuts to their hourly rates (something unheard of not so long ago)
However, this is a very cyclical industry and even allowing for the increasing trend to send aircraft to other continents for heavy maintenance, there will always be a good need for line engineers. There is also the issue of the number of experienced licensed engineers who will be retiring in the next 10-15 years (myself included) Currently, there is simply not the numbers being trained in many airlines and MRO’s to replace these engineers and the problem won’t go away!
If you have been offered an apprenticeship with an airline then you won’t have an issue with gaining the experience required for Licenses. Most of the problems of this nature are faced by folks who are starting out self-studying or attending the theory-only JAR147 approved courses.
However, this is a very cyclical industry and even allowing for the increasing trend to send aircraft to other continents for heavy maintenance, there will always be a good need for line engineers. There is also the issue of the number of experienced licensed engineers who will be retiring in the next 10-15 years (myself included) Currently, there is simply not the numbers being trained in many airlines and MRO’s to replace these engineers and the problem won’t go away!
If you have been offered an apprenticeship with an airline then you won’t have an issue with gaining the experience required for Licenses. Most of the problems of this nature are faced by folks who are starting out self-studying or attending the theory-only JAR147 approved courses.
Last edited by boeing_eng; 15th Mar 2011 at 09:43.
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As boeing eng says - If you went for one of the airline apprenticeships with A/B1/B2 licence training, you will get all the experience you need, no worries at all.
It's only the guys who went to university etc to get a degree/basic licence course that struggle to get placements. And it's getting tougher for them now as I believe the DFT want anyone going airside (either on a permy pass or temp pass) to be employed - so being an unpaid trainee with a pass to come in for OJT is going to become harder!
I'm baised I guess, but I'd apply for Monarch/Virgin.
You'll get some of the best training in the industry, a licence, all the experience you require, and if your 17 now, by your mid-late 20's, you should be on £45k+overtime, with a few holidays a year for next to nothing. Not many of your mates will be outside of aviation.
It's only the guys who went to university etc to get a degree/basic licence course that struggle to get placements. And it's getting tougher for them now as I believe the DFT want anyone going airside (either on a permy pass or temp pass) to be employed - so being an unpaid trainee with a pass to come in for OJT is going to become harder!
I'm baised I guess, but I'd apply for Monarch/Virgin.
You'll get some of the best training in the industry, a licence, all the experience you require, and if your 17 now, by your mid-late 20's, you should be on £45k+overtime, with a few holidays a year for next to nothing. Not many of your mates will be outside of aviation.
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Well after hearing what everyone has said and still having not made up my mind I decided to apply to Virgin before I decide that I would like to be an LAE and it's too late.
I have another interview at MA on the 30th
A quick look on the Virgin website, and one question to ask.
Do the only train you to an 'A' level engineer. After the apprenticeship must you then pay, and gain the epxerience to become a 'B1/ B2' licensed engineer?
Thanks, Adam
I have another interview at MA on the 30th
A quick look on the Virgin website, and one question to ask.
Do the only train you to an 'A' level engineer. After the apprenticeship must you then pay, and gain the epxerience to become a 'B1/ B2' licensed engineer?
Thanks, Adam
Most companies train their apprentices to A License standard (mine does) Assuming you continue working hands-on in the industry, to progress to B1/B2 level will involve fulfilling the experience criteria (which will basically involve recording the details of the work you have carried out as part of your job) You will also have to pass the relevant exams. The only possible cost to you will be CAA exam fees (although a lot of companies pay for these anyway) Should you choose to attend course/s to prepare you for the exams there may also be cost (but Virgin have an excellent training school and may give you courses for free!)
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
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Oh I thought you had to pay for training and exams and that cost thousands?
Or is that just for people who won't be training with them through the apprenticeship programme?
Adam
Or is that just for people who won't be training with them through the apprenticeship programme?
Adam
Correct....As an apprentice you will not be expected to fork out for any training costs. There may be License admin/exam fees (if you have to sit those with the CAA) but as I mentioned previously, most companies refund these.
The big fees are incurred by those who self-fund JAR147 "ab-initio" approved courses (as they are effectively covering all the costs themselves)
The big fees are incurred by those who self-fund JAR147 "ab-initio" approved courses (as they are effectively covering all the costs themselves)
