Solid Rivet removal
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30k rivets!!! So do you think there is a requirement for a tool to improve the removal process?, judging by the high ammount you mentioned using a center punch and a drill would take forever! 
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[QUOTEA good sheet metal man should drill out 10 to 15 rivets in a minute and Marshall has lots of good sheet metal men. And a good sheet metal man does not need a center punch.][/QUOTE]
I sort of love your quote because you use the word should>>
Aircraft are not yet standardized machines to the extreme of mechanized maintenance. The fact that an aircraft hull can not even be produced to the exacting standards to mechanize skin removal and certainly over a term of flight it grows and shrinks in unspecified areas.
Sorry drifted off topic, but spot on for you to realize that the best damb tool to remove a rivit is a sharp drill bit in a straight drill with a craftsman behind it. Loss is at human factor/skill. There is NO better answer.
I sort of love your quote because you use the word should>>
Aircraft are not yet standardized machines to the extreme of mechanized maintenance. The fact that an aircraft hull can not even be produced to the exacting standards to mechanize skin removal and certainly over a term of flight it grows and shrinks in unspecified areas.
Sorry drifted off topic, but spot on for you to realize that the best damb tool to remove a rivit is a sharp drill bit in a straight drill with a craftsman behind it. Loss is at human factor/skill. There is NO better answer.
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10 to 15 rivets per minute??? That is cr
p. 4 to 6 seconds per rivet to take the head off and remove the shank?? Hate to put a fastener back into a hole you drilled. 1st oversize every time!
Bloke would be taking absolutely no care whatsoever.. Very Flip Flop..
Drills bits wander on starting without a pop mark to allow the tip to clear, even if the bit is sharp. Care is needed if you don't pop them to adjust for that wander.. That also blows your 4 to 6 seconds out of the water unless you like teddy bears..
Or two fat ladies?? 88!!
p. 4 to 6 seconds per rivet to take the head off and remove the shank?? Hate to put a fastener back into a hole you drilled. 1st oversize every time!Bloke would be taking absolutely no care whatsoever.. Very Flip Flop..
Drills bits wander on starting without a pop mark to allow the tip to clear, even if the bit is sharp. Care is needed if you don't pop them to adjust for that wander.. That also blows your 4 to 6 seconds out of the water unless you like teddy bears..
Or two fat ladies?? 88!!
Drilling out MS20470AD & MS20426AD rivets is pretty easy and quick, seeing as the head identification is already a central dimple (assuming there's not 20swg paint on top 
).
It's c/s Cherry rivets on light gauge structures that give me the most grief...
).It's c/s Cherry rivets on light gauge structures that give me the most grief...
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10 to 15 rivets per minute??? That is cr
p. 4 to 6 seconds per rivet to take the head off and remove the shank?? Hate to put a fastener back into a hole you drilled. 1st oversize every time!
Bloke would be taking absolutely no care whatsoever.. Very Flip Flop..
Drills bits wander on starting without a pop mark to allow the tip to clear, even if the bit is sharp. Care is needed if you don't pop them to adjust for that wander.. That also blows your 4 to 6 seconds out of the water unless you like teddy bears..
p. 4 to 6 seconds per rivet to take the head off and remove the shank?? Hate to put a fastener back into a hole you drilled. 1st oversize every time!Bloke would be taking absolutely no care whatsoever.. Very Flip Flop..
Drills bits wander on starting without a pop mark to allow the tip to clear, even if the bit is sharp. Care is needed if you don't pop them to adjust for that wander.. That also blows your 4 to 6 seconds out of the water unless you like teddy bears..
Drill bit wander? Maybe if you don't know what your doing. Remember these people are professionals!
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So am I mate, been doing it for 30 years... 4 to 6 seconds is an exageration.. You time yourself next time. Again, bloke behind you punching rivets out.. Somebody blocking behind? I have never seen 600 rivets removed in one hour.. Even with 3 flip flops involved.. And powered punches and minimal drilling of just the heads.
If you use a centre drill, fine.. My lot don't supply them, so it's standard twist drills. You start a 3/16" - 1/4" drill on a uni head and drill it straight with no start pop or a smaller pilot.. That web of that sharp twist drill wants to draw nice circles in that rivet head, even if you are perpendicular to the head and drilling at a satisfactory speed. Even a smaller drill does the same. The British ONC mechanical engineering qualification teachs you all about the cutting loads and forces that happen to varoius drill designs.
A 3/16" or 1/4" uni head takes more than 6 seconds to drill to a depth that the head will depart, when you hit it.. Err, head should be removed before you knock the shank out. Profesional people do. And with the larger rivets like 3/16" or 1/4" (that are used a lot on Boeings, especially spars, chords and frames), usually they go through a lot of material, that requires the shank being drilled.. Some **** broke my new punching snap by not drilling out the shanks.. and the shank didn't come out.
If you use a centre drill, fine.. My lot don't supply them, so it's standard twist drills. You start a 3/16" - 1/4" drill on a uni head and drill it straight with no start pop or a smaller pilot.. That web of that sharp twist drill wants to draw nice circles in that rivet head, even if you are perpendicular to the head and drilling at a satisfactory speed. Even a smaller drill does the same. The British ONC mechanical engineering qualification teachs you all about the cutting loads and forces that happen to varoius drill designs.
A 3/16" or 1/4" uni head takes more than 6 seconds to drill to a depth that the head will depart, when you hit it.. Err, head should be removed before you knock the shank out. Profesional people do. And with the larger rivets like 3/16" or 1/4" (that are used a lot on Boeings, especially spars, chords and frames), usually they go through a lot of material, that requires the shank being drilled.. Some **** broke my new punching snap by not drilling out the shanks.. and the shank didn't come out.
Last edited by Alber Ratman; 7th Jan 2011 at 22:47.
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From the AC..
have started to shear.
Carefully punch out a 1/4" rivet with only the head removed..Yeah..
Disassembly Prior to Repairing.
If
the parts to be removed are essential to the rigidity
of the complete structure, support the
structure prior to disassembly in such a manner
as to prevent distortion and permanent damage
to the remainder of the structure. When rivets
are removed, undercut rivet heads by drilling.
Use a drill of the same size as the diameter of
the rivet. Drilling must be exactly centered
and to the base of the head only. After drilling,
break off the head with a pin punch and
carefully drive out the shank. On thin or unsupported
metal skin, support the sheet metal
on the inside with a bucking bar. Removal of
rivet heads with a cold chisel and hammer is
not recommended because skin damage and
distorted rivet holes will probably result. Inspect
rivet joints adjacent to damaged structure
for partial failure by removing one or more
rivets to see if holes are elongated or the rivets
the parts to be removed are essential to the rigidity
of the complete structure, support the
structure prior to disassembly in such a manner
as to prevent distortion and permanent damage
to the remainder of the structure. When rivets
are removed, undercut rivet heads by drilling.
Use a drill of the same size as the diameter of
the rivet. Drilling must be exactly centered
and to the base of the head only. After drilling,
break off the head with a pin punch and
carefully drive out the shank. On thin or unsupported
metal skin, support the sheet metal
on the inside with a bucking bar. Removal of
rivet heads with a cold chisel and hammer is
not recommended because skin damage and
distorted rivet holes will probably result. Inspect
rivet joints adjacent to damaged structure
for partial failure by removing one or more
rivets to see if holes are elongated or the rivets
have started to shear.
Carefully punch out a 1/4" rivet with only the head removed..Yeah..
Join Date: Jun 2011
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New Fasterner Removal Methiod
Wondered if you have seen that latest in fastener removal technology. Fasteners can now be removed by an EDM machine instead of a drill. (Electro Discharge Machining). There is a You Tube video of the machine in action. Go to:
Removes a titanium fastener in about 8 to 12 seconds with no pilot hole and second pass drilling required.
Removes a titanium fastener in about 8 to 12 seconds with no pilot hole and second pass drilling required.
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431 MU AEF / RSS QA inspector ripping your job apart on his final check
Was asked to go get a module from the storage building, drove the forks under the box and tried to lift it, no joy, several quick up and downs of the forks and there was an almighty bang and up came the box, got off the forks and looked behind the box to find I had tore out a good 20 foot of cast iron heating pipe..... thinking days to do, popped a box back in front and was gone before ever found, if indeed it was until they turned the heating back on in the winter......
last and only time I was not first line on a Squadron.thread drift again, sorry.....
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Re: New Fastener Removal Method
Does anyone on this forum have experience of the EDM system in the video above?
The manufacturer claims it's 4-5x as fast as drilling with less FOD and greatly reduced risk of airframe damage, so why isn't it widely used?
The manufacturer claims it's 4-5x as fast as drilling with less FOD and greatly reduced risk of airframe damage, so why isn't it widely used?
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Curious if any of the old s/m guys have done any Taper lok installs or removals.Those suckers came out like bullets if you were not careful.
a 9x rivet gun wins every time...
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We had one of those EDM systems turn up before Xmas. Called E drill. Cost £20k and never been out the box. The smallest size fastener it does is 5/32. You have to set it up for each fastener type. £20k gets you a lot of drill bits. I could go on and tell you about the window polishing robots we go at $500k that sit under dust sheets. We only polish a couple of windows a year!
Removing rivets you need a windy drill, drill bits, hammer and punch. Or if your doing thousands, put a punch in your rivet gun for the tails. You could be doing advanced rivet removal by drilling off the tails. But not recommended
Removing rivets you need a windy drill, drill bits, hammer and punch. Or if your doing thousands, put a punch in your rivet gun for the tails. You could be doing advanced rivet removal by drilling off the tails. But not recommended
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EDM fastener removal system
The EDM system in the video is called E-Drill. Its only been in the market for a few years, and in this industry adoption rates of anything new and different are glacially slow. It removes fastener sizes from 3/32" to 3/8", and broken drills, taps and easy-outs.
...and in the interests of full disclosure I'm the primary inventor! So I'm cautious not to violate forum rules so dont ask me how good it is
...and in the interests of full disclosure I'm the primary inventor! So I'm cautious not to violate forum rules so dont ask me how good it is
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Brightspark could have sworn the instructions said 5/32. Still your doing better than me I've invented nothing.
Things take time to catch on in aviation and even longer in aviation maintenance. A lot of the time it's through choice, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I'd still rather be using paper maintenance manuals. But also cost counts to the adoption of new technology. If its expensive and you can get away without needing it then you don't usually get it.
Another thing is mind set. We have guys who enjoy repair, sheet metal work and modifications and part of that is getting the drills out and using your skill and hand tools to get the job done. They are also on the most part totally mechanically minded so any thing electrical/electronic that will require some form of setting up they will just switch off and not engage with. It might be easier to use and faster but they won't get it. Plus if you have to read the instructions then forget it. No one likes reading the instructions
Things take time to catch on in aviation and even longer in aviation maintenance. A lot of the time it's through choice, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I'd still rather be using paper maintenance manuals. But also cost counts to the adoption of new technology. If its expensive and you can get away without needing it then you don't usually get it.
Another thing is mind set. We have guys who enjoy repair, sheet metal work and modifications and part of that is getting the drills out and using your skill and hand tools to get the job done. They are also on the most part totally mechanically minded so any thing electrical/electronic that will require some form of setting up they will just switch off and not engage with. It might be easier to use and faster but they won't get it. Plus if you have to read the instructions then forget it. No one likes reading the instructions
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A little more info
Hi 146fixer,
E-drill is available with 2 different hand-tools; the EG covers -3 to -8 fasteners, and the CG covers -5 to -12. Sort of similar to a 1/4" chuck or a 1/2" chuck (almost).
If I'm guessing right who and where you are, hopefully someone will arrive soon to uncrate yours and show you how to use it. Might even be me! I'm going to be clairvoyant and say I predict you have a lot of monel cherry's in your future!
Who was Claire Voyant anyway?
E-drill is available with 2 different hand-tools; the EG covers -3 to -8 fasteners, and the CG covers -5 to -12. Sort of similar to a 1/4" chuck or a 1/2" chuck (almost).
If I'm guessing right who and where you are, hopefully someone will arrive soon to uncrate yours and show you how to use it. Might even be me! I'm going to be clairvoyant and say I predict you have a lot of monel cherry's in your future!
Who was Claire Voyant anyway?
