Qantas engineering apprenticeship 2011
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Qantas engineering apprenticeship 2011
appologies in advance if some of what i am asking has already been covered!
Was looking on the Qantas website at the engineering apprenticeship they are offering next year.
Was wondering if anyone could give me any information about the intake process for the apprenticeship and how competitive it is?
What are job propects and career progression like for engineers in the industry at the moment and what sort of pay would you be looking at in the furture as an engineer with Qantas or other airlines once completing the apprenticeship?
Any advice or information much appreciated guys.
Was looking on the Qantas website at the engineering apprenticeship they are offering next year.
Was wondering if anyone could give me any information about the intake process for the apprenticeship and how competitive it is?
What are job propects and career progression like for engineers in the industry at the moment and what sort of pay would you be looking at in the furture as an engineer with Qantas or other airlines once completing the apprenticeship?
Any advice or information much appreciated guys.
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Hi Tom19,
I probably don't have the most up to date info, but I have gone thru an aircraft engineering apprenticeship scheme some time ago. The recruitment concept is still similar.
Getting in. Yes, it is competative! People with Year 10 to Engineering Degree qualifications will be gunning for a slot. They will put you thru a aptitude test first. General maths and science stuff. If you get thru, then an interview, basically to see if you are 'a hands-on' & motivated type person. Talk about hobbies / projects you have done and whether you are more electrically or mechanically minded. Engineering is basically split into 2 streams, Avionics or Mechanical.
Once In. If you want a fast track to become an engineer (LAME), get started on CASA Basic Exams, so that when you graduate, you already have most / all of your exams completed. This improves your chances of employment significantly. Also start filling out a CASA aproved Experience book.
Airline LAMEs can earn anywhere from $50K to $150K p.a. depending on the number of type licenses held and shift pattern worked.
There is progression, but you also need to be patient. As a guide, from first year appentice to first LAME license (eg.B737) will take 5 years min. To make it to the top end and be considered an experienced engineer, 10 years.
Best wishes.
I probably don't have the most up to date info, but I have gone thru an aircraft engineering apprenticeship scheme some time ago. The recruitment concept is still similar.
Getting in. Yes, it is competative! People with Year 10 to Engineering Degree qualifications will be gunning for a slot. They will put you thru a aptitude test first. General maths and science stuff. If you get thru, then an interview, basically to see if you are 'a hands-on' & motivated type person. Talk about hobbies / projects you have done and whether you are more electrically or mechanically minded. Engineering is basically split into 2 streams, Avionics or Mechanical.
Once In. If you want a fast track to become an engineer (LAME), get started on CASA Basic Exams, so that when you graduate, you already have most / all of your exams completed. This improves your chances of employment significantly. Also start filling out a CASA aproved Experience book.
Airline LAMEs can earn anywhere from $50K to $150K p.a. depending on the number of type licenses held and shift pattern worked.
There is progression, but you also need to be patient. As a guide, from first year appentice to first LAME license (eg.B737) will take 5 years min. To make it to the top end and be considered an experienced engineer, 10 years.
Best wishes.
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You apply, and then you do a computer based test, from there you may be lucky to gain a interview. I suggest to do a pre apprenticeship first as that is the way it is heading at the moment. As for Basic exams with CASA, the rules have changed and now your TAFE exams are now your CASA basics, so there is no doubling up now. However the course material is very different to what most of us engineers have done. Qantas if you get into a line station, your looking at your 4 years apprenticeship plus another 4 years to get a course. That's on a line station with better odds than in heavy maintenance which you have Buckley's.
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In the other threads ive been seeing a lot of negatives towards qantas engineering apprentices and Im also apply for a Qantas apprenticeship in avionics.
Is it still that bad today?
BTW what is hell is in the 4hr assessment? (After the phone interview I think)
Is it still that bad today?
BTW what is hell is in the 4hr assessment? (After the phone interview I think)
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tcwayne, cant help with the 4 hr thing.No idea.But the job has changed.
It is far harder now to get a license than 20 or 30 years ago.Much less company type training.Many QF AME's pay for their own courses on their own holiday time.Even then no guarantee you will be paid for the license as you need to be on the QF system as a LAME.In other words they have their numbers of people they want to pay and that is it.
You could in theory be doing everything a LAME does and still get AME money.
The new EASA system has moved the goal posts too.Going to be a bit of a mess for a while.
I wish anyone well who wants to go the LAME way.It can be a rewarding job and some enjoy it, but I honestly would discourage my own kids from doing it.
The career path is so limited.
.
Maybe I am just another cynical old bugger at the wrong end of his career but I just dont find it attractive.
There is no glamour whatsoever.Zero.When you pull off a great fix you are just doing your job.When you make a mistake you get your backside kicked, hard.
Think long and hard about why you want to do it.
Is it you love aircraft? (It'll wear off
)
Do you want the staff travel?(over rated
)
Does it sound like a cool job to be in ?( can be. Maybe a good for a pick up line and for conversation but after 20 or 30 yrs
)
Do you want a technical job? (There are better places / choices with a career path I am certain where your skills are sought after on the open market.)
If you like shift work and some do, its OK.Many work 4 on 4 off or similar which can be great but forget about having your Christmases , New years and Easters off.Just another night at the factory.You do get time off during the week which is excellent.
If you just get a day work gig the money is not that great.Much of the cream is from shift penalties or built into the award / contract as part of the package for working crappy hours / holidays etc.
All the best.A/C.
It is far harder now to get a license than 20 or 30 years ago.Much less company type training.Many QF AME's pay for their own courses on their own holiday time.Even then no guarantee you will be paid for the license as you need to be on the QF system as a LAME.In other words they have their numbers of people they want to pay and that is it.
You could in theory be doing everything a LAME does and still get AME money.
The new EASA system has moved the goal posts too.Going to be a bit of a mess for a while.
I wish anyone well who wants to go the LAME way.It can be a rewarding job and some enjoy it, but I honestly would discourage my own kids from doing it.
The career path is so limited.
.
Maybe I am just another cynical old bugger at the wrong end of his career but I just dont find it attractive.
There is no glamour whatsoever.Zero.When you pull off a great fix you are just doing your job.When you make a mistake you get your backside kicked, hard.
Think long and hard about why you want to do it.
Is it you love aircraft? (It'll wear off
)Do you want the staff travel?(over rated
)Does it sound like a cool job to be in ?( can be. Maybe a good for a pick up line and for conversation but after 20 or 30 yrs
)Do you want a technical job? (There are better places / choices with a career path I am certain where your skills are sought after on the open market.)
If you like shift work and some do, its OK.Many work 4 on 4 off or similar which can be great but forget about having your Christmases , New years and Easters off.Just another night at the factory.You do get time off during the week which is excellent.
If you just get a day work gig the money is not that great.Much of the cream is from shift penalties or built into the award / contract as part of the package for working crappy hours / holidays etc.
All the best.A/C.
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A+P L.A.M.E.
HI FOLKS - I HAVE RECENTLY RETIRED AFTER 55 YRS IN THE AVIATION BUSINESS AS A+P ETC. I STARTED APPRENTISHIP ON SHORTS SUNDERLAND FLYING BOATS - SIMILAR TO QF 'C' CLASS BOATS - RIGHT THRO TO B.777 / A.380 - AND INC. MOST MILITARY AIRCRAFT - INC. SR-71 .
I WOULD ONLY ENCOURAGE ANY YOUNG GUY TO HAVE A GO - ITS THE ULTIMATE IN THE ENGINEERING WORLD I ASSURE YOU .
NO OTHER INDUSTRY COMES CLOSE TO IT . YOU WILL ALSO MEET SOME OF THE GREATEST FOLKS YOU COULD EVER HOPE TO MEET + TRAVEL AROUND THE WORLD . DON'T THINK OF IT AS A LIFETIME AT QF . IF YOU ARE GOOD AT THE JOB - YOU WILL BE HEADHUNTED BY OTHER OUTFITS . COULD BE ON OIL RIG HELOS - OR ON EXPERIMENTAL AIRPLANES ?
NO , I DONT WORK FOR QF - THEY WERE MY CUSTOMER FOR MANY YEARS WHEN I HAD MY J.C.A.I. COMPANY SUPPLYING THEM + R.A.A.F. WITH SUCH EQPT. AS NI -CADS / NI CAD ANALYZERS - HOBART G.P.U.s ETC . - SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPEND A LIFETIME AS AN A+P = L.A.M.E. - WE ALL GET A BIT FED UP WITH THE SNAP ON SPANNER WORK - ESP. IN THE ICE / SNOW / WET / WIND ETC.
IF YOU LOVE AIRPLANES IT HELPS - I STILL DO - THANX J.C.
I WOULD ONLY ENCOURAGE ANY YOUNG GUY TO HAVE A GO - ITS THE ULTIMATE IN THE ENGINEERING WORLD I ASSURE YOU .
NO OTHER INDUSTRY COMES CLOSE TO IT . YOU WILL ALSO MEET SOME OF THE GREATEST FOLKS YOU COULD EVER HOPE TO MEET + TRAVEL AROUND THE WORLD . DON'T THINK OF IT AS A LIFETIME AT QF . IF YOU ARE GOOD AT THE JOB - YOU WILL BE HEADHUNTED BY OTHER OUTFITS . COULD BE ON OIL RIG HELOS - OR ON EXPERIMENTAL AIRPLANES ?
NO , I DONT WORK FOR QF - THEY WERE MY CUSTOMER FOR MANY YEARS WHEN I HAD MY J.C.A.I. COMPANY SUPPLYING THEM + R.A.A.F. WITH SUCH EQPT. AS NI -CADS / NI CAD ANALYZERS - HOBART G.P.U.s ETC . - SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPEND A LIFETIME AS AN A+P = L.A.M.E. - WE ALL GET A BIT FED UP WITH THE SNAP ON SPANNER WORK - ESP. IN THE ICE / SNOW / WET / WIND ETC.
IF YOU LOVE AIRPLANES IT HELPS - I STILL DO - THANX J.C.
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Nice enthusiastic reply if not romantic.
The reality is the vast majority do not get head hunted or get to dick around on experimental leading edge tech military aircraft.
OS work is around but is not what it was 20 years ago.Money and geo politics have dented some of the locations attractiveness.
I have worked for the military and various airlines and contractors for over 30 years both in oz and OS.
Opportunities are not what they were as airlines are just so much tighter with money.Engineers (in Oz at least ) are not respected they are an expensive regulatory evil.
If you are truly keen go for it get a license somehow and POQ overseas and chase the dream.
My advice is use your lips not your hands, move money around not spanners.
The reality is the vast majority do not get head hunted or get to dick around on experimental leading edge tech military aircraft.OS work is around but is not what it was 20 years ago.Money and geo politics have dented some of the locations attractiveness.
I have worked for the military and various airlines and contractors for over 30 years both in oz and OS.
Opportunities are not what they were as airlines are just so much tighter with money.Engineers (in Oz at least ) are not respected they are an expensive regulatory evil.
If you are truly keen go for it get a license somehow and POQ overseas and chase the dream.
My advice is use your lips not your hands, move money around not spanners.
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The four hours is probably the technical assessment at a QANTAS hangar (if you get that far). First up is the online tech assessment, then group stuff, then an interview and if all goes well maybe a job offer.
Still waiting on an update after having done the Previsor stuff (which is a sort of behavioural assessment).
Cheers
Still waiting on an update after having done the Previsor stuff (which is a sort of behavioural assessment).
Cheers
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When you make a mistake you get your backside kicked, hard.
When you make a mistake, recognise your mistake and admit to it, you ar$e is fairly safe.
However, should you attempt to cover up your mistake, deny you were involved or point the blame at others... then that is a different story.
It's a shame we have a few apprentices coming through nowdays who just can't understand this concept!
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Hi BSC,
Not sure we are in the same context.
I am referring to a few instances in my port where guys have made honest mistakes in how the job is done and very nearly sacked over it.One...Stood down for 2 weeks.There was no aircraft damage no equipment damage no one injured.Procedure and "safety".
Someone just wanted an example made and a very experienced LAME of 30 plus years is put thru the wringer. He's quite conscientious too.
No guessing how his engagement level is traveling!
Not sure we are in the same context.
I am referring to a few instances in my port where guys have made honest mistakes in how the job is done and very nearly sacked over it.One...Stood down for 2 weeks.There was no aircraft damage no equipment damage no one injured.Procedure and "safety".
Someone just wanted an example made and a very experienced LAME of 30 plus years is put thru the wringer. He's quite conscientious too.
No guessing how his engagement level is traveling!
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Well that is it for me for QANTAS for 2011. Have been cut with no explanation as to why. Worse still will be never knowing why (as QANTAS will not provide feedback)
I had heard QANTAS would take between 24-26 in Brisbane for 2011. This was substantially but back to 14 (and the overall quota cut from 120 in 2010 to 60 in 2011).
Very frustrating when having completed Part 66 exams for both mechanical and avionics and having to choose one means I can't apply for the other.
I'm sick of trying to find an apprenticeship in this industry as after so many applications and never getting to an interview I still don't understand what I am doing right or wrong (something like 14 application now)
The training schools are churning out far too many people with few employment prospect (and yet the schools say industry sets the training number - so why are they no all absorbed). I almost scream when the school talks about a 95+ employment rate (which is dishonest as they don't talk about the numbers of apprenticeships offered).
I am finding that this industry does not want bright, intelligent hard-working people who can offer more than just an ability to fix aircraft. Industry is looking for the lowest cost or the the dumbest they can get away with that will do the job.
Out of ideas.
I had heard QANTAS would take between 24-26 in Brisbane for 2011. This was substantially but back to 14 (and the overall quota cut from 120 in 2010 to 60 in 2011).
Very frustrating when having completed Part 66 exams for both mechanical and avionics and having to choose one means I can't apply for the other.
I'm sick of trying to find an apprenticeship in this industry as after so many applications and never getting to an interview I still don't understand what I am doing right or wrong (something like 14 application now)
The training schools are churning out far too many people with few employment prospect (and yet the schools say industry sets the training number - so why are they no all absorbed). I almost scream when the school talks about a 95+ employment rate (which is dishonest as they don't talk about the numbers of apprenticeships offered).
I am finding that this industry does not want bright, intelligent hard-working people who can offer more than just an ability to fix aircraft. Industry is looking for the lowest cost or the the dumbest they can get away with that will do the job.
Out of ideas.
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Sorry to hear you're out of ideas...
From my experience, the industry still hasn't come to terms with the Part 66 course, or even Cert IV.
You may find some opportunities with Defence cons at Amberley or Oakey. At least the military system is used to the Cert IV requirements. Once you complete your competencies, you will have more selling power.
Only problem is, if you move out of QLD, don't expect any support from your training provider (I think I know who it is). You will need to find another RTO to sign off your competencies.
Good luck...
From my experience, the industry still hasn't come to terms with the Part 66 course, or even Cert IV.
You may find some opportunities with Defence cons at Amberley or Oakey. At least the military system is used to the Cert IV requirements. Once you complete your competencies, you will have more selling power.
Only problem is, if you move out of QLD, don't expect any support from your training provider (I think I know who it is). You will need to find another RTO to sign off your competencies.
Good luck...
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2011 Apprenticeships
Hi there, I hope you were not told that if you do the course with AA that you would get first dibs on jobs with QANTAS and Jetstar and others and get charged a lot of dollars for the pleasure. AA have used similar strategies for years now. Industry are not interested in student from AA as they usually have a heap of passes in Exams and very little hand skills. To get employed as a second year Apprentice with low hand skills is not going to happen.
The recruiting teams contact all RTO's across Australia for the next years Apprentice program. It is a level playing field and yes it is very competitive.
I would suggest you plan a road trip and start dropping in at regional Airports and apply for any job you can get.
Good luck and don't give up.
The recruiting teams contact all RTO's across Australia for the next years Apprentice program. It is a level playing field and yes it is very competitive.
I would suggest you plan a road trip and start dropping in at regional Airports and apply for any job you can get.
Good luck and don't give up.
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AA Statistics:
Jan 2002 - Dec 2009
Trained 973 domestic institutional students, 800 successfully completed, 714 now employed in aviation industry. Approx 440 entered apprenticeships.
Interesting to note that a little over a half entered an apprenticeship. I am dubious over those employed in the aviation industry statistic as how this is measured is anybody's guess.
I got this from my local state member as AA is technically a business run and owned by the Queensland Government.
If I had enough money or clout I would get AA shut down and force students to go the old fashioned route. AA repeatedly made the point that hand skills were not important (!?!?!) as this is what an apprenticeship was all about. Getting the necessary hand skills. What is shows is that AA and industry have a disconnect and that I think AA has become a sausage factory churning out too many students.
The crazy thing is that the GA sector is short of people yet CASA in their wisdom will not offer me an easy path to convert my EASA exams to CASA CAR31 equivalents. Other than doing all the exams. I know there is a maintenance licenses conversion process moving from the old to the new but that is some 4-5 years. For those us trying to find work now, the regulator has made the task just that more complicated.
After all the frustrations I have had this year I am walking away from the industry. I don't have many good things to say about my training provider. The instructors are good (some are great) however the after sales service is worse than a used car salesman. My whole point of using AA was I believed them in saying that the jobs market was buoyant and that good results should lead to a job. All I can say is bulls**t. Employment services have been less than honest, upfront or communicative.
I really wonder what the reason behind Paul Brederick rapid departure from AA was all about?
Cheers
Jan 2002 - Dec 2009
Trained 973 domestic institutional students, 800 successfully completed, 714 now employed in aviation industry. Approx 440 entered apprenticeships.
Interesting to note that a little over a half entered an apprenticeship. I am dubious over those employed in the aviation industry statistic as how this is measured is anybody's guess.
I got this from my local state member as AA is technically a business run and owned by the Queensland Government.
If I had enough money or clout I would get AA shut down and force students to go the old fashioned route. AA repeatedly made the point that hand skills were not important (!?!?!) as this is what an apprenticeship was all about. Getting the necessary hand skills. What is shows is that AA and industry have a disconnect and that I think AA has become a sausage factory churning out too many students.
The crazy thing is that the GA sector is short of people yet CASA in their wisdom will not offer me an easy path to convert my EASA exams to CASA CAR31 equivalents. Other than doing all the exams. I know there is a maintenance licenses conversion process moving from the old to the new but that is some 4-5 years. For those us trying to find work now, the regulator has made the task just that more complicated.
After all the frustrations I have had this year I am walking away from the industry. I don't have many good things to say about my training provider. The instructors are good (some are great) however the after sales service is worse than a used car salesman. My whole point of using AA was I believed them in saying that the jobs market was buoyant and that good results should lead to a job. All I can say is bulls**t. Employment services have been less than honest, upfront or communicative.
I really wonder what the reason behind Paul Brederick rapid departure from AA was all about?
Cheers
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Qantas Engineering Apprenticeship 2011
To answer your question it goes like this: The current process is an online application, followed by a phone interview. Then an online physic test, then an online apptitude test. Not finished yet, then a 4 hour assessment (practical and team skills), then a face to face interview, finally followed a medical.
Rather a long process, but designed to get the best candiadate at current application rates 1 in 25 are successful.
Great career and good prospects all over the world so good luck to you and yours.
Rather a long process, but designed to get the best candiadate at current application rates 1 in 25 are successful.
Great career and good prospects all over the world so good luck to you and yours.
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Whissper,
I understand the situation you find yourself in. Why dont you sit the CAR 31 basic exams? I would imagine you would breeze them in with a little study having recently completed the EASA exams and the AA course.
Unfortunately this industry is no longer what it used to be, and you have to make it work for you.
You will find that this will continue throughout your career, especially if you secure employment with Qantas as an apprentice. From what I understand they no longer train AME's to LAME status (not much anyway) so you would be looking at having to self fund your type training and even then they more than likely wont recognize you as a LAME and keep you as an AME.
The point is this industry is not going to get any better for you, and it is a bastard for people in your situation.
If you do decide to stick with it (and I hope you do) it will be worth it for you once you do actualy obtain your first licence.
GB
I understand the situation you find yourself in. Why dont you sit the CAR 31 basic exams? I would imagine you would breeze them in with a little study having recently completed the EASA exams and the AA course.
Unfortunately this industry is no longer what it used to be, and you have to make it work for you.
You will find that this will continue throughout your career, especially if you secure employment with Qantas as an apprentice. From what I understand they no longer train AME's to LAME status (not much anyway) so you would be looking at having to self fund your type training and even then they more than likely wont recognize you as a LAME and keep you as an AME.
The point is this industry is not going to get any better for you, and it is a bastard for people in your situation.
If you do decide to stick with it (and I hope you do) it will be worth it for you once you do actualy obtain your first licence.
GB
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Hello GB,
I have looked at CAR 31 exams, did some study, walked away only to think about them again. I read most of the syllabus for both AE and EIR and still don't understand why CASA don't offer a part RPL. It can't be that hard to map from one to the other.
The issue I have is the that I am forced to adhere to the CASA timetable and while I MIGHT be able to manage 6 exams every exam period it is still going to take me a considerable amount of time to finish them all off (assuming I pass). It will still cost me a considerable amount of money (@ $100/exam) Even then there is no guarantee of a job or paid work. I really don't want to sit another bundle of exams as I already have. There really should be a mechanism to convert from one to the other but CASA will never see it that way.
Unfortunately I (along with a number of peers and completed students) have reached a point where the motivation to try and enter the industry has gone. We are looking towards alternative. Thinking about it most of these were high performing students who had made very conscious decisions to try and enter the aviation industry but have been unsuccessful or unable in finding work. Many are mature age and I reckon age is factor. Discrimination does happen but proving it is nigh on impossible. Why wouldn't you interview the top students?
It is time to put an end to a dream of fixing (and possibly flying) helicopters. Instead I shall focus on eventually buying my own machine and fly for fun.
I have looked at CAR 31 exams, did some study, walked away only to think about them again. I read most of the syllabus for both AE and EIR and still don't understand why CASA don't offer a part RPL. It can't be that hard to map from one to the other.
The issue I have is the that I am forced to adhere to the CASA timetable and while I MIGHT be able to manage 6 exams every exam period it is still going to take me a considerable amount of time to finish them all off (assuming I pass). It will still cost me a considerable amount of money (@ $100/exam) Even then there is no guarantee of a job or paid work. I really don't want to sit another bundle of exams as I already have. There really should be a mechanism to convert from one to the other but CASA will never see it that way.
Unfortunately I (along with a number of peers and completed students) have reached a point where the motivation to try and enter the industry has gone. We are looking towards alternative. Thinking about it most of these were high performing students who had made very conscious decisions to try and enter the aviation industry but have been unsuccessful or unable in finding work. Many are mature age and I reckon age is factor. Discrimination does happen but proving it is nigh on impossible. Why wouldn't you interview the top students?
It is time to put an end to a dream of fixing (and possibly flying) helicopters. Instead I shall focus on eventually buying my own machine and fly for fun.
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Whissper, you really need to go and visit some GA mobs around Australia. The real only way to secure a job these days is the old fashioned way of person to person. Forget about Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin, Cobham down in Adelaide are currently looking for an apprentice from what I have been told, however I have not heard great things from there either. Working in GA is a great fun and you will get a lot of out it and meet a lot of people. You also do need to travel and don't be afraid of moving. CASA should recognize the AA course as your Basics CAR31, however you do need to follow it up with CASA.
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mate sorry to hear you did make it through with qantas, I must admit the reason I read through this thread carefully was becasue I myself am looking at becoming a mechanical engineer. I am failry new and dont yet understand the difference between ame and lame? so yeah pretty basic stuff. but I have done some research into what the prospective are for this industry and everything I find tells me that its looking quite good with many airliners needing more people maybe not so much australia.