The best route to B1 for a career changer?

[Skyseeker]

Hi

Im looking for some advice really on how to get into aircraft maintainence engineering. I'm starting to get my head around the different licenses and sub catergories but would be keen to get people's views on the best route into the industry.

Am I right in saying there are 2 routes:

1) Full time 2 year course at somewhere like Kingston, then 2 years practical in order to get the B1 licence
2) Try and get a job whilst studying the modules, pass the modules and then give evidence of 5 years experience in order to get the B1 licence.

What are peoples views the the two options? ( if there are other ways to do it, I'd love to hear). BtW I'm 28 so too old for an apprentiship i would have thought.

For me the second option appeals, purely because two years on a fulltime course without any income wold be tricky for me. With that in mind however, i would imagine its nearly impossible to get a job without any experience or exams passed?? How did you guys manage it?

My other question is where the best career prospects are once you are licensed. Whilst I am not going into this for the money, I'd be interested to know whether the pay differs hugely between GA (flying club piston aircraft) and airline work and helicopters.

I'd really like to draw on other people's experiences and hear how they got on and what path they took. Ultimately I'd like to work on the mechanical side rather than the avionic side.

Any pointers would be really appreciated for a 28 year old career changer...?!

Thanks very much in advance

SS

[ab33t]

Option 2 is the way to go . Your mind is in the right place so get down and get going

[IFHP]

It would also depend on your current employment and skills. If you work in an office and have little spannering experience it will be harder to change than if you've been fixing cars.
As a general rule GA pay less than the big airlines or offshore helicopters.
Sneak across to Airmech.co.uk you may get more info and pay scales.

[smudgethecat]

Big difference in salaries, you could expect to be on around 50k as a type rated line engineer with one of the bigger charter/scheduled carriers, you wont get anything like that in GA

[Alber Ratman]

You have a dilema mate.

Option one involves finding a lot of money and futher money to support you when you do it. Then you have to find a job, having no practical experience of PART 145 maintenance in what possibly will be still a contracted market where more experienced mechanics will be the choice, usually..

Option two involves you finding a job when you have no maintenance experince or training whatsoever.. I do know people who have started as cleaners and have shown the willingness and attitude to be taken on as self improvers towards a mechanic level of pay. No official training and their pay goes up towards a mech after several years. I also know ex car mechanics that have been taken on in a similar manner, however with night school training towards the A or B1. These jobs are few and far between. If you don't try however you will never get..

That is the hard truth...Unfortunately

I was in military aviation for 25 years before I jumped to the industry, that was a massive advantage over your situation and I did the modules prior to leaving. It was still a culture shock to me as the RAF does do things very differently to EASA and I still have to learn the aircraft I'm involved in and do the work that was outside my field in the RAF. A Mondeo specialist can't really be expected to know a Merc when he has never worked on them, can he? Its the same for different AC types as well.

[Skyseeker]

Thanks for your replies so far.

Hmmmm. So it seems a very difficult industry to get into. Do most people come from apprenticeship schemes and from the military then? Whats the norm?

Obviously I imagine the job market is probably worse than terrible at the moment, so trying to get one of these 'few and far between' jobs as Alber says is probably near impossible ( let alone getting paid enough to live on, if anything).

So, with that in mind it seems the 2 year full time course is the only way to stand a chance of getting a job even at a very basic level? It seems a shame as I would rather do the self improver route - surely more 'hands on experience' is a better training platform than a theory based classroom course?

Any other thoughts?

Thanks

SS

[Alber Ratman]

SS, if you don't tell us your background, we cannot really point you in the right direction..

[Skyseeker]

A fair point!

In brief, i have 3 a levels but no degree. I was, in a former life training for my CPL but stopped the training after a change in my personal circumstances. During that training I got my PPL and passed my ATPL theory exams, but i went no further. I really enjoyed the technical subjects in particular.

So, i have experience of studying aviation subjects and about 170 hours flying on a PPL, but no real hands on mechanical work experience.

Thanks

SS

[WOTME?]

There are guys out there who have recognised training and years of experience under their belts & they can't get jobs.

[Alber Ratman]

if you are serious about this, option one is the only way you will be able to proceed without doing an appenticeship or doing the interested cleaner bit (that you are overqualified for).

However, there is the military aviation way that will allow you to be trained up after 3 to 4 years service up to a level where a company could think about taking you on. In that time you could do the civvy modules and get them under you belt (and the RAF would help you pay for them to a degree). You would get half decent pay as well and job security.

Downsides? The crap and the sand that you get and the time away from family that happens now. You would still have to do the practical tasks when you leave and a minimum time in a PART 145..

However, get onto the A330 unit at Brize when it sets up and you will be laughing! Military pay and every job you do would count towards the basic and type. As it is Part 145 maintained, everything you do as a mechanic would count..Trouble is everybody wants that!

[Dodo56]

SS, in my company I get 3-4 emails every week from people who have done the academic side and need to come in to get the hands-on experience. Many of them offer to work for free, but that is no advantage. In a commercial aviation maintenance environment it's not the sort of industry where you can gain any advantage from novices working for free, and it takes your experienced guys off the job as n00bs have to be closely supervised and instructed.

I'd hazard a guess going into a 145 environment without prior hands-on experience hoping to get the experience up to engineer standard is pretty much a non-starter anywhere. In your position I'd suggest going with the bottom level entry route with an agency and study while you are gaining experience. Once you are an established connie, as long as you don't mind going where the work is - which may not be the best parts of the world - you won't be short of work. To get on the bottom rung you wil still need to demonstrate some background/aptitude so maybe offer to help out at a local GA club (if you have PPL you're not entirely ignorant!) or museum.

[Alber Ratman]

An agency would want evidence of experience. Welcome to Catch 22.

[spannersatKL]

How about don't do it!!! Not all its cracked up to be and more cash in your pocket maintaining the trains!!! But if you insist.....try a Kingston Course for the Foundation Degree and in 2 years have all the modules....then need to get an employer......but can be done and is done....... You just need the time and cash to do the course....I have seen a few who have done it in their 40's....beats me why though....

[Skyseeker]

Thanks for the replies.

I think I will have a chat with some agencies to see if there is any chance of very basic work while i do the exams.

Does anyone have any recomendations for agencies to try?

Thanks

SS

[AVIONIQUE]

I really dont wish to discourage a keen guy such as yourself, you are just the sort of person that the industry USED to require and would help to train, but the industry is in a very different position these days. With the recesion, EASA "level playing field", airlines de skilling jobs to give mechanics more cover, outsourcing to cheaper countries and the ever present cost controls in every company trying to force down wages, terms, and conditions it certainly does not on the face of it appear to be a career to aspire to. Many of the people I work with are trying to diversify OUT of the industry!
The aviation sector however does have some special power to attract people with an interest in aviation despite all the drawbacks, and I suspect you may be counted amongst them. If you really want to do this then of course you should do it but you must be aware that it is going to take a lot of time, money and sacrifice to achieve and may well not be worth the candle.
When sometime in the future you find yourself with your arm down a toilet waste pipe at two in the morning, at risk of redundancy,under constant pressure to do more with less, with diminishing money in your pocket you might well ask youself what the hell you were thinking of.
My advice would be to choose an easier, cleaner, better paid industry that allows you a social/family life and sate your aviation appetite through hobby flying/ maintaining / building aircraft or whatever.
But then again i am a pi**ed off, miserable ,cynical, engineer at the moment. Perhaps it will pass.
Best of british luck to you anyway.

[STANCARRIER]

Did you burn the Yorkshire puddings Avionique ?
I am joking but agree totally with your opinions !!!!
Should have carried on wiring houses

[stevef]

Take a look at this: Marshall Aerospace - Adult Re-training
I don't know any more about the scheme than you see there..