My dream to be an aircraft engineer
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My dream to be an aircraft engineer
Hi everyone,
I need your help now, im 23 and it has always been my dream to be an aircraft engineer. I spent four years at college and the last year and half working for an airline for free, just to get maintenance experience. I dont think im some kind of hotshot engineer just because ive been to college or done abit of experience, and i know ive just began to scrape the edge of knowledge needed for this job. But i love what i do and its starting to worry me now as i have not gained employment through an apprenticeship. The airline i do my work ex for are small compared to the gigantic airlines about and are already over staffed, and i goty glowing reference from them. So im appealing to all experienced engineers to guide me, i need help, what else can i do. i am willing to do anything even relocate to a different country.
Thanks for reading
I need your help now, im 23 and it has always been my dream to be an aircraft engineer. I spent four years at college and the last year and half working for an airline for free, just to get maintenance experience. I dont think im some kind of hotshot engineer just because ive been to college or done abit of experience, and i know ive just began to scrape the edge of knowledge needed for this job. But i love what i do and its starting to worry me now as i have not gained employment through an apprenticeship. The airline i do my work ex for are small compared to the gigantic airlines about and are already over staffed, and i goty glowing reference from them. So im appealing to all experienced engineers to guide me, i need help, what else can i do. i am willing to do anything even relocate to a different country.
Thanks for reading
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Monarch & Virgin do apprenticehips but im not sure if there still doing them.
What was you doing at college may I ask? May be you should consider paying to do your Jar 66B1 license but EASA is coming into play soon so may be it will be different.
Im not an engineer but my father is and I did a bit of engineering at college before I went off and started pilot training.
What was you doing at college may I ask? May be you should consider paying to do your Jar 66B1 license but EASA is coming into play soon so may be it will be different.
Im not an engineer but my father is and I did a bit of engineering at college before I went off and started pilot training.
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Try the Forces or Marshall Aerospace; everyone else is cutting back as far as I know, but that will change soon enough.
Marshall Aerospace - Apprenticeships
Bristow
Job categories - RAF Careers
Keep plugging away
Marshall Aerospace - Apprenticeships
Bristow
Job categories - RAF Careers
Keep plugging away
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I know nothing about this side of things, BUT:
Have you been in touch with SRT Technics (I think?!?) at Gatwick? When I dispatched there, they were always extremely busy, overworked, etc. I cannot remember the other engineering group I used to see racing around the airfield, but will try to find out. Presumably you've spoken to Storm. (This may be as annoying to you as it is to me when my parents say surely somebody is recruiting low hour pilots. If so, sorry. Just thoughts.)
Just a thought after seeing Papi's comment. A relation of mine is working on the Red Arrows, as an apprentice, £17000 salary so far, no experience, no education. I wonder if you could queue jump with your experience??
Have you been in touch with SRT Technics (I think?!?) at Gatwick? When I dispatched there, they were always extremely busy, overworked, etc. I cannot remember the other engineering group I used to see racing around the airfield, but will try to find out. Presumably you've spoken to Storm. (This may be as annoying to you as it is to me when my parents say surely somebody is recruiting low hour pilots. If so, sorry. Just thoughts.)
Just a thought after seeing Papi's comment. A relation of mine is working on the Red Arrows, as an apprentice, £17000 salary so far, no experience, no education. I wonder if you could queue jump with your experience??
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Hey,
Im a B1 licensed aircraft engineer and ive worked both as a contractor and a permanent employee, ive worked for a selection of airlines.
If you want give me a pm and maybe we could speak on the phone, i would be more than happy to give advice.
Im a B1 licensed aircraft engineer and ive worked both as a contractor and a permanent employee, ive worked for a selection of airlines.
If you want give me a pm and maybe we could speak on the phone, i would be more than happy to give advice.
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Hi Dani, must say its nice to see someone so enthusiastic.......
And now for the honest appraisal of the poor and sorry state of the aircraft maint industry in uk at the min, B1/B2 myself been doing this for 20 odd years and havent seen it as bad as this for a long time...
Not just talking about the recent turndown which last year had a very dramatic effect as you probably know. Its just getting very difficult to get along now. Training costs are absolutely astronomical (circa 10k all in per type to approval with course/living/accm/OT/lost earnings if youre a conny), even for the big companies which is mostly why they all want somone who is trained and ready to go. Unfortunately no-one is willing to train anyone.
Increasing red tape from the Campaign Against Aviation on behalf of our European lords is strangling everyone. Its getting more difficult to find work as a conny these days although things are picking up, check out aviation jobsearch and see how many positions there are against people chasing them.
If you choose to be a conny expect to be treated like sh*t by 95% of the agencies who will lie to you, not pay you, put you forward for work that isnt there, phoning you when youre on the way to a job to say the rate has gone down... will you still do it? or worse the job has gone...and generally shark you at every possible occasion. Also expect to be treated the same by most employers if you get a position, it will be in sharp contrast to the way aircrew are treated.....
Its my humble opinion that the engineering business in the UK is over..... the position of engineer no longer commands any respect from most portions of the aircraft world and its standing and esteem have been eroded over time, sad but true and sadly the sooner I can find someway into another industry the better.... I'm addressing this as we speak....
Sorry if it wasnt what you wanted to hear but its straight from the heart mate. That said I would advise you to give it your best shot cos its a fantastic job and I've enjoyed nearly every day, I just can't see any long term future with any reasonable security......
Good luck anyway
Bodjit
Oh and try Aircraft Engineers Bulletin Board - Powered by vBulletin, talk to fenestron ....... he'll point you in the right direction
And now for the honest appraisal of the poor and sorry state of the aircraft maint industry in uk at the min, B1/B2 myself been doing this for 20 odd years and havent seen it as bad as this for a long time...
Not just talking about the recent turndown which last year had a very dramatic effect as you probably know. Its just getting very difficult to get along now. Training costs are absolutely astronomical (circa 10k all in per type to approval with course/living/accm/OT/lost earnings if youre a conny), even for the big companies which is mostly why they all want somone who is trained and ready to go. Unfortunately no-one is willing to train anyone.
Increasing red tape from the Campaign Against Aviation on behalf of our European lords is strangling everyone. Its getting more difficult to find work as a conny these days although things are picking up, check out aviation jobsearch and see how many positions there are against people chasing them.
If you choose to be a conny expect to be treated like sh*t by 95% of the agencies who will lie to you, not pay you, put you forward for work that isnt there, phoning you when youre on the way to a job to say the rate has gone down... will you still do it? or worse the job has gone...and generally shark you at every possible occasion. Also expect to be treated the same by most employers if you get a position, it will be in sharp contrast to the way aircrew are treated.....
Its my humble opinion that the engineering business in the UK is over..... the position of engineer no longer commands any respect from most portions of the aircraft world and its standing and esteem have been eroded over time, sad but true and sadly the sooner I can find someway into another industry the better.... I'm addressing this as we speak....
Sorry if it wasnt what you wanted to hear but its straight from the heart mate. That said I would advise you to give it your best shot cos its a fantastic job and I've enjoyed nearly every day, I just can't see any long term future with any reasonable security......
Good luck anyway
Bodjit
Oh and try Aircraft Engineers Bulletin Board - Powered by vBulletin, talk to fenestron ....... he'll point you in the right direction
Last edited by Bodjit; 27th Jan 2010 at 20:41.
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sorry dani,have to agree with everything bodjit writes.lot of engs hanging on to jobs by fingertips.heard to day large uk MRO sacked its Maint Director and possible "important annoucements" to base Maint personnel early next week.you,ve picked the worst time to try and fnd a job.Sorry. Nobody hiring just firing.
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Thanks everyone for the replys,
i keep applying for apprenticeships but they just say im over qualified, [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Apparently[/FONT] they rely on government funding and if you have anything over average grades they wont fund you, pathetic, i paid good money to do course at college to give me an advantage or a good foundation of skills to start an apprenticeship and i get penalised. then you get the idiots that dont know how to read an ammeter and dont know the difference between an screwdriver and a torque wrench that get on apprenticeships cause there girlfriends uncle, sisters,father in law is a manager of an airline. But thats life and i will persevere, because how ever long i wait it will be worth it in the long run, if my past experience is anything to go by, i will love it.
i keep applying for apprenticeships but they just say im over qualified, [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Apparently[/FONT] they rely on government funding and if you have anything over average grades they wont fund you, pathetic, i paid good money to do course at college to give me an advantage or a good foundation of skills to start an apprenticeship and i get penalised. then you get the idiots that dont know how to read an ammeter and dont know the difference between an screwdriver and a torque wrench that get on apprenticeships cause there girlfriends uncle, sisters,father in law is a manager of an airline. But thats life and i will persevere, because how ever long i wait it will be worth it in the long run, if my past experience is anything to go by, i will love it.
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Dani,
I'm afraid - IMHO - that academia has stolen some sort of march on the maintenance training scheme. I spoke recently with someone whose background is similar to yours: college or uni and a basic rating and his situation is similar to yours = no job. After your college or uni, you are expected to move into industry to gain experience. In the maintenance industry, that is, frankly, @rse about face; experience - and a book full of ratings - is what the AMOs want. Given the choice of a 50 year old with years of experience but no aviation related academic qualification or a 23 year old with the opposite, guess who will probably get the job? I know lots of guys and girls who have attended degree course after working for years in the maintenance industry as a change in career path or for personal satisfaction; no problem with that. I did a great 4 year apprenticeship with MAEL in the 70s: block release college and a couple of LWTR courses included. Bring the traditional apprenticeship back.
I'm afraid - IMHO - that academia has stolen some sort of march on the maintenance training scheme. I spoke recently with someone whose background is similar to yours: college or uni and a basic rating and his situation is similar to yours = no job. After your college or uni, you are expected to move into industry to gain experience. In the maintenance industry, that is, frankly, @rse about face; experience - and a book full of ratings - is what the AMOs want. Given the choice of a 50 year old with years of experience but no aviation related academic qualification or a 23 year old with the opposite, guess who will probably get the job? I know lots of guys and girls who have attended degree course after working for years in the maintenance industry as a change in career path or for personal satisfaction; no problem with that. I did a great 4 year apprenticeship with MAEL in the 70s: block release college and a couple of LWTR courses included. Bring the traditional apprenticeship back.
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i understand your point Bus429 but im not applying for jobs that require mass amounts of experience, im starting right at the bottom i did the quals to give me a good foundation for when i start an apprenticeship. same with the work ex, im working for free just to get experience, i didnt come out of college after four years and think just applying for any AME job. I understand that experience is everything.
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Dani the foot in the door is the hardest to get and if you already have time on the spanners you stand a good chance of being picked up as a connie or applying for any mech jobs that come up. As some have said it's not a very glamorous ladder at first and it may not be all it was at the top either but if it wasn't a fundamentally satisfying job we wouldn't be doing it.
As a connie you will have the track record to be considered for jobs as they do arise and once in an airline/MRO you have the chance to put in for the formal training and exams. If all else fails, if you're working and gaining the 5 years you need you can be self studying for the examined modules.
As a connie you will have the track record to be considered for jobs as they do arise and once in an airline/MRO you have the chance to put in for the formal training and exams. If all else fails, if you're working and gaining the 5 years you need you can be self studying for the examined modules.
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Just to be certain, you do mean an aircraft engineer (fix, maintain,service,support) as opposed to an aerospace engineer (aircraft and system concept,design,develop,test) ? Although there is overlap, my passion is for the design side...
hugel
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hi hugel,
i hope to be a maintenance engineer, as for being a connie that would be good but id rather do an apprenticeship to get the proper training and experience this role deserves in order to do the job affectively.
i hope to be a maintenance engineer, as for being a connie that would be good but id rather do an apprenticeship to get the proper training and experience this role deserves in order to do the job affectively.
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Your dream to be an aircraft technician was started off in the wrong way, where did you get advice to take the pathway you chose? I assume you were told this by your school career advisor. You did not ask any apprentice I know as they would all tell you a much different story illustrated by the posts above.
What are they going to teach you on a 3 or 4 year Modern Apprenticeship today that you have not covered already on your 4 year college course? Where were your Part-66 modular course exam passes? Your age now puts you outside the primary UK funding range for most sponsorship (it's a painful but true fact). Unfortunately, your current position is at a distinct disadvantage to that of someone who had taken the direct route to an aircraft maintenance apprenticeship all those years ago, and they would probably be on a decent salary and a career taking off into the blue yonder.
You should think of ways of recovering your position, perhaps improving you text in these posts might go some way to help you start. Choose your words carefully in your CV and covering letter or Email, this will be your only contact with some employers. Highlighting specific areas of practical work would be another good idea. It could be that you might be considered for a mature apprentice or trainee course. If you wish to put yourself above the other applicants for an apprentice course or similar, I would advise that you do a lot of research into Part-66 EASA licensing and the full aviation legislative system, especially for the UK CAA, this is free to do but often overlooked by many students. For a start, you could demonstrate this over the telelphone or interview, it shows you are serious.
Make sure that any Email contact with employers is spell-checked twice and contains no errors. For goodness sake, drop the 'i' in your written text. I hope that you kept a CAP 741 log book (or similar) with correctly annotated signatures from your short experience, this will be very useful to you in gaining employment and getting your license in the future. Don't forget that there are helicopters in aviation as well, this could lead you to a job in a smaller company, perhaps more local to you.
You could throw all your eggs now into doing a aviation degree course, but this will not lead to a job in aircraft maintenance as a technician, and you would become one of the many seeking the elusive 'design' job idea planted into the heads of young students from an early age.
The above is something to read or ignore, I'll let you make the choice.
What are they going to teach you on a 3 or 4 year Modern Apprenticeship today that you have not covered already on your 4 year college course? Where were your Part-66 modular course exam passes? Your age now puts you outside the primary UK funding range for most sponsorship (it's a painful but true fact). Unfortunately, your current position is at a distinct disadvantage to that of someone who had taken the direct route to an aircraft maintenance apprenticeship all those years ago, and they would probably be on a decent salary and a career taking off into the blue yonder.
You should think of ways of recovering your position, perhaps improving you text in these posts might go some way to help you start. Choose your words carefully in your CV and covering letter or Email, this will be your only contact with some employers. Highlighting specific areas of practical work would be another good idea. It could be that you might be considered for a mature apprentice or trainee course. If you wish to put yourself above the other applicants for an apprentice course or similar, I would advise that you do a lot of research into Part-66 EASA licensing and the full aviation legislative system, especially for the UK CAA, this is free to do but often overlooked by many students. For a start, you could demonstrate this over the telelphone or interview, it shows you are serious.
Make sure that any Email contact with employers is spell-checked twice and contains no errors. For goodness sake, drop the 'i' in your written text. I hope that you kept a CAP 741 log book (or similar) with correctly annotated signatures from your short experience, this will be very useful to you in gaining employment and getting your license in the future. Don't forget that there are helicopters in aviation as well, this could lead you to a job in a smaller company, perhaps more local to you.
You could throw all your eggs now into doing a aviation degree course, but this will not lead to a job in aircraft maintenance as a technician, and you would become one of the many seeking the elusive 'design' job idea planted into the heads of young students from an early age.
The above is something to read or ignore, I'll let you make the choice.
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when i left school apprenticeships were a thing of the past, and i did do my research when i left school for apprenticeships and alot of companies dropped there training schemes and it was only until i was half way through my course the government had wanted to jump start the apprenticeship schemes again. i may have been advised properly when i left school if any of the airlines had bothered to reply to any of my letters or emails, the only bit of external information i found was when i went to the RAF careers and they said they were one of the few people that offered apprenticeships then.
And also make no mistake, i am not naive, i have researched the in and outs of licensing and also have a cap 147 log book complete with signatures, and good references from numerous engineers and the company itself. Not bad for someone that works for free!!
The college course was all that was available to me at the time, so i had to do it rather the ignore my chosen career path, it wasnt a matter of starting off in the wrong way, it was a matter of starting off., dont you think i wish i had done an apprenticeship, otherwise i would have not have been in this situation.
also looking at Bodjit statement again he has highlighted my point
"no one is willing to train anyone."
And also make no mistake, i am not naive, i have researched the in and outs of licensing and also have a cap 147 log book complete with signatures, and good references from numerous engineers and the company itself. Not bad for someone that works for free!!
The college course was all that was available to me at the time, so i had to do it rather the ignore my chosen career path, it wasnt a matter of starting off in the wrong way, it was a matter of starting off., dont you think i wish i had done an apprenticeship, otherwise i would have not have been in this situation.
also looking at Bodjit statement again he has highlighted my point
"no one is willing to train anyone."
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Yes, we all wish we could turn the clock back. There are companies out there trying to make a difference with training for young people. The industry is not dead, I can look around at many on £30K, £40K, £50K, £60K salaries and above driving nice cars, enjoying their work and thanking their training (if they are really honest) for their situation.
I can also look not too far and find someone bitter and twisted with an axe to grind, if I look hard enough.
You sound like a good guy, don't bother getting bitter like some, get your act together, look further afield and open your eyes and ears. Keep positive.
I'm beginning to get used to your 'i's.
I can also look not too far and find someone bitter and twisted with an axe to grind, if I look hard enough.
You sound like a good guy, don't bother getting bitter like some, get your act together, look further afield and open your eyes and ears. Keep positive.
I'm beginning to get used to your 'i's.
We have an engineer your age who completed a short EASA 147 course with a view to getting an A licence. He has been here almost a year and we are looking at getting the forms filled in for his application. Yes he has to go on from there for the B but it's not a bad route and having been sceptical I now believe this not a bad way to do things.
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Ferret Eric speaks sense, too many folks look down their noses at the A license, but they miss the fact that it puts you well on the ladder to success. Even better if you can do the Part-147 short course of 6/7 months as this reduces your experience needed to just 1 year. Holding the A should reduce your experience for Cat B as well. It's win win.