Is this career dead?
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Is this career dead?
Hi all,
Again, its kind of embarressing starting another thread (most of you are porbably a bit peed off) but this is a major decision I need to make.
Would you say this industry is dead, and would be a mistake studying towards now? I read back on other threads, from 04, and someone said that most contracts were being paid out to eastern european countires because of the cheaper labour.
So, would you say I can a well paying, stable career as an aircraft engineer?
Again, its kind of embarressing starting another thread (most of you are porbably a bit peed off) but this is a major decision I need to make.
Would you say this industry is dead, and would be a mistake studying towards now? I read back on other threads, from 04, and someone said that most contracts were being paid out to eastern european countires because of the cheaper labour.
So, would you say I can a well paying, stable career as an aircraft engineer?
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Honestly, unless you are willing to travel and or go for the highest paying company and are willing to put your career over family. This is a tough career. I put in more than 10 years before I was able to score a position with an airline that to this day (in the top 3 of the USA) and doubt it is different anywhere, I hold on to 4 years seniority and am still skeptical about my security at my company.
Last edited by muduckace; 12th Oct 2009 at 09:10.
Has a stable career been a reasonable guarantee, ever, in aircraft operations? - whether flying, maintaining, group ops...
Somehow I doubt it, but that's not necessarily been a reason not to pursue such a career, just to take care how you go about it and plan your life accordingly.
G
Somehow I doubt it, but that's not necessarily been a reason not to pursue such a career, just to take care how you go about it and plan your life accordingly.
G
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Thanks Genghis, from what I read on here, you are probably right!
I am very concerned and nervous about committing to this. I am reading that getting your B1/B2 is not going to be very advantageous in the future, as recruiters are looking to get rid of 'licence' engineers?
Anyone know if this is true?!
I am very concerned and nervous about committing to this. I am reading that getting your B1/B2 is not going to be very advantageous in the future, as recruiters are looking to get rid of 'licence' engineers?
Anyone know if this is true?!
There is a steady transition under EASA from individual licences, to approved postholders within an approved organisation. So the "authority" will not approve you individually, but approve your company with you as part of it - they are looking for the overall skill set.
Within that, any skills and licences you have make you more valuable to any organisation. What you may have to accept in future however is that those licences become not a licence to practice, but simply a part of your CV that contributes to your employability.
Is this good or bad? Probably both, but it's certainly how things are going.
G
Within that, any skills and licences you have make you more valuable to any organisation. What you may have to accept in future however is that those licences become not a licence to practice, but simply a part of your CV that contributes to your employability.
Is this good or bad? Probably both, but it's certainly how things are going.
G
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They have been trying to get rid of licensed engineers to my knowledge for nearly forty years they still havent managed it, if however they do prevail then forget it, the job will not be worth a light, you may as well be a kwik fit fitter
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Engineering dead
As a 30 year man, with over 18 years as a licenced engineer, then transferred to full B1, this is the only way to go.To get good money you need types on your licence and the experience.
The industry is losing enough staff to the climate, why give up without a fight.
I love my profession and wouldn't change it for the world, we all know that we do things that the average Joe can't, lets try to encourage new people not give them doom and gloom, there's enough of that to go round for all without treading them down before they start
Apart from that, even if licences do dis-appear, there must be some transfer of grand-father rights.
Jetset41
The industry is losing enough staff to the climate, why give up without a fight.
I love my profession and wouldn't change it for the world, we all know that we do things that the average Joe can't, lets try to encourage new people not give them doom and gloom, there's enough of that to go round for all without treading them down before they start
Apart from that, even if licences do dis-appear, there must be some transfer of grand-father rights.
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Gengis, the authority does not approve you, the company approves you to issue the CRS using your licence with the relevant type ratings issued by the authority as the legal pre-requisite for the issue of that approval, without holding a licence then you cannot issue a CRS, even the issue of a pre flt or daily authorisation now requires the holding of a A licence, i dont know of anyone who is able to release a aircraft to service without holding the relevant approval based on the holding of a A, B1, B2 , or C licence
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After more than 30 years in the Aircraft buisness earning a good living I think you should give it a go. Better to regret something you have tried.
One bit of advice if you do decide to study for your licence do all the modules at B1/B2 level. The way I see the industry going is you will need to be B1 and B2 as I think they will combine these to make one licence.
One bit of advice if you do decide to study for your licence do all the modules at B1/B2 level. The way I see the industry going is you will need to be B1 and B2 as I think they will combine these to make one licence.
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Thanks hawker man.
I have heard that you need to be able to build up your type ratings. How long does this take? Does it cost?
Also, if you are engineer, and say a contract comes up in country Z, will the company pay for your accomodation or does this come out of your own pocket?
I have heard that you need to be able to build up your type ratings. How long does this take? Does it cost?
Also, if you are engineer, and say a contract comes up in country Z, will the company pay for your accomodation or does this come out of your own pocket?
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The type rating course on the average "Big Jet" takes "About" twelve weeks.
Most firms will bond you to them for a number of years before you can take the course. The leagality of the these bonds is open to debate but they WILL try to enforce them if you leave.
The physicality of the job can vary. One day you will be sweating like a dinner lady, pushing and heaving at big dirty componants. The next day you will be using watch makers screw drivers trying not to breath on some thing.
It is the best job in the airline industry.
Don't forget all the big aircraft manufactures are working on pilotless aircraft. Nobody is trying to develop a robot engineer!!!
Rgds Dr I
Most firms will bond you to them for a number of years before you can take the course. The leagality of the these bonds is open to debate but they WILL try to enforce them if you leave.
The physicality of the job can vary. One day you will be sweating like a dinner lady, pushing and heaving at big dirty componants. The next day you will be using watch makers screw drivers trying not to breath on some thing.
It is the best job in the airline industry.
Don't forget all the big aircraft manufactures are working on pilotless aircraft. Nobody is trying to develop a robot engineer!!!
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Smudgethecat is on the money, although approvals are issued by the Part 145 company they are on the basis of the engineer's Part 66 licence and type approvals. No licence/type rating, no approval to stamp.
Arguably base maintenance is on the decline in some countries due to the lower cost of doing it in places like the Philippines or Estonia, but there will still be a need to keep engineering capabilities close to base, even if it's only line and defects work. On a bigger subject what will happen to the airline industry as the oil becomes increasingly scarce and the price of fuel goes up? For sure rising ticket prices will shrink the industry reducing the need for work, but on the upside it will be more expensive to dead-leg an aircraft halfway round the world to be fettled.
Overall, I'd say it's definitely not dead now.... in years to come who knows where it will go, but then in these turbulent times who can be sure of the prospects for any job?
Arguably base maintenance is on the decline in some countries due to the lower cost of doing it in places like the Philippines or Estonia, but there will still be a need to keep engineering capabilities close to base, even if it's only line and defects work. On a bigger subject what will happen to the airline industry as the oil becomes increasingly scarce and the price of fuel goes up? For sure rising ticket prices will shrink the industry reducing the need for work, but on the upside it will be more expensive to dead-leg an aircraft halfway round the world to be fettled.
Overall, I'd say it's definitely not dead now.... in years to come who knows where it will go, but then in these turbulent times who can be sure of the prospects for any job?
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The profession of Aircraft Engineer is by no means dead. I am in my late thirties and am A,B1,C on 11 types. I have never been in any other industry but know lots of people who are. This job, for me is the best job in the world for a mechanically minded, logical thinker. I have seen the world at somebody else's expense and now work in the UK as a permie.
Whilst most engineers compare our salary to pilots, ours is not a bad lot if you are willing to be qualified. Get out there, get your B License(B1 or B2) and be a professional. Dont listen to the ever present whinging mass that seems to occupy the profession. I love this job and when you get qualified on your first type, you can look around and say' Not many people in the country can do what I do!'
Look in the papers and see the types of jobs that will pay £50K a year(NOT MANY!).
Act like a professional, carry yourself like a professional and look like a professional and funny enough you will be treated like a professional. This is a lesson many of the people in the industry could learn from.
Go for it , you won't regret it!!!
Whilst most engineers compare our salary to pilots, ours is not a bad lot if you are willing to be qualified. Get out there, get your B License(B1 or B2) and be a professional. Dont listen to the ever present whinging mass that seems to occupy the profession. I love this job and when you get qualified on your first type, you can look around and say' Not many people in the country can do what I do!'
Look in the papers and see the types of jobs that will pay £50K a year(NOT MANY!).
Act like a professional, carry yourself like a professional and look like a professional and funny enough you will be treated like a professional. This is a lesson many of the people in the industry could learn from.
Go for it , you won't regret it!!!
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Some good posts on here.
My theory is that while there are aircraft flying, there will be the need for skilled and experienced people to maintain them. I would say there are fewer better professions from a job satisfaction point of view, but the current climate and attitude of some airlines does make it quite tough at the moment. Then again our industry isn't the only one going through the mill.
I'd say if you want it, go for it.
My theory is that while there are aircraft flying, there will be the need for skilled and experienced people to maintain them. I would say there are fewer better professions from a job satisfaction point of view, but the current climate and attitude of some airlines does make it quite tough at the moment. Then again our industry isn't the only one going through the mill.
I'd say if you want it, go for it.
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Id agree there, things are tough at present but they are everywhere, no way is the end of the road in sight IMO, aircraft are always going to need well qualified people to maintain them and those well qualified people will need to be paid well , the average basic salary on our line station for a B1/B2 licensed engineer with around five types is between 50 -55k this includes shift and approval pay, overtime and detachments can bump that up to over 60k easily, which is a reasonable salary, as said, there aint that many jobs out there paying 50k plus.
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I really appreciate the posts above, amazing.
I agree, the salary is very rewarding.
However...
It seems that the average contractor rate is £30 an hour, or just below this. Say the contract is in a random country abroad, do I need to pay for the accomodation, flights etc, or is that included in the contract?
Because if you do need to pay for all of the expenses, well the £30 per hour, doesnt amount to much after everything
I agree, the salary is very rewarding.
However...
It seems that the average contractor rate is £30 an hour, or just below this. Say the contract is in a random country abroad, do I need to pay for the accomodation, flights etc, or is that included in the contract?
Because if you do need to pay for all of the expenses, well the £30 per hour, doesnt amount to much after everything
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As a connie, you will be working all hours under the sun in most cases. A lot will be working 50/60/70 hours +. Overseas jobs can see free accomodation and possibly flights. Times 30 quid by 70 hours per week and work that out.
Its true that the industry is suffering at the moment and it will take a crystal ball to see when things will start improving on the jobs front. I was lucky to get a permie slot at an MRO this year, however that does involve me only seeing my family at the weekend and 600 miles driving a week to make the mechanics pay worth it (overtime covers the petrol BTW). It is a great industry however.
Its true that the industry is suffering at the moment and it will take a crystal ball to see when things will start improving on the jobs front. I was lucky to get a permie slot at an MRO this year, however that does involve me only seeing my family at the weekend and 600 miles driving a week to make the mechanics pay worth it (overtime covers the petrol BTW). It is a great industry however.
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Thanks AR...
What do you do about tax, say you are working in Russia, £30 an hour. When you get back to the Uk, do you need to pay income tax on this?
Also, do you also agree that it is a physical demanding job? And is it possible to work until your 65, or will you reach a stage where you cant keep up with the physical demands?
What do you do about tax, say you are working in Russia, £30 an hour. When you get back to the Uk, do you need to pay income tax on this?
Also, do you also agree that it is a physical demanding job? And is it possible to work until your 65, or will you reach a stage where you cant keep up with the physical demands?
