The Aircraft Engineer
Join Date: Dec 2006
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YouTube - Dilbert Cartoon- Engineers
Forget engineering become a priest... Work only on Sunday, one book no revisions.
Forget engineering become a priest... Work only on Sunday, one book no revisions.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: whitley bay
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I see your point i really do, im sure i will eventually become as experienced as all of you out there.
I understand now why all of this is happened and thats because of change they have university courses now which makes it slightly easier than trying to find an apprenticeship.
I understand where everyone is coming from i just dont understand why the older generation is slating the younger generation all because we dont do things their way its not right.
Anyway i would of joined the forces if i had the choice but unfortunatly i dont so this is my only option.
Thanks for the support i appreciate it
Oh one other thing its great how everyone automatically assumed i was male lol im not getting at anyone for it i find it funny, and on a lighter note i think its great how many females are now joining the idustry shows how much the world has moved foward.
I understand now why all of this is happened and thats because of change they have university courses now which makes it slightly easier than trying to find an apprenticeship.
I understand where everyone is coming from i just dont understand why the older generation is slating the younger generation all because we dont do things their way its not right.
Anyway i would of joined the forces if i had the choice but unfortunatly i dont so this is my only option.
Thanks for the support i appreciate it
Oh one other thing its great how everyone automatically assumed i was male lol im not getting at anyone for it i find it funny, and on a lighter note i think its great how many females are now joining the idustry shows how much the world has moved foward.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I am a college churned out product
hey to all,
well Its a very intresting point that tranwell and others have put. I passed fropm klm college alongwith a degree from kingston both on merit. I got the job with CX and since then I am learning about aircrafts in the true sense. what i have realisd after getting my basic B1 but not offered course is that there is no replacment to experince. But i have another point: to become a competent engineer you have to understand the aircraft as a machine and apply basic knowledge in logics that leads to effective trouble shooting. i work in line enviorment where engineer is not only responsible for aircraft but need to have a quick respone to various un known situations.I will do my BEng Hons as well , i think we all need to have an "option", when we think that we need a "change".
what you say guys about this???
well Its a very intresting point that tranwell and others have put. I passed fropm klm college alongwith a degree from kingston both on merit. I got the job with CX and since then I am learning about aircrafts in the true sense. what i have realisd after getting my basic B1 but not offered course is that there is no replacment to experince. But i have another point: to become a competent engineer you have to understand the aircraft as a machine and apply basic knowledge in logics that leads to effective trouble shooting. i work in line enviorment where engineer is not only responsible for aircraft but need to have a quick respone to various un known situations.I will do my BEng Hons as well , i think we all need to have an "option", when we think that we need a "change".
what you say guys about this???
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Lala, we automatically assumed you were male because the overwhelming majority of engineers in the aviation industry are - and because young men aren't known for level heads and balanced viewpoints. If you were tired and angry when you wrote the post, it explains why I immediately assumed you were a young bloke.
I do not recommend posting while tired and angry. It gives the rest of us girls a bad name.
It's a difficult industry for anyone to break into, and with the lack of women in engineering overall it's not surprising there are so few here. The number of female engineers is vanishingly small, and real engineering - understanding how it works at the deepest level, what can go wrong, how to faultfind and fix it - takes skills women rarely develop and a mindset we aren't encouraged to learn. I wish you much luck on your quest, but it isn't ever going to be easy. It's not easy for the guys either, but I hope you're used to male-dominated environments. Most engineers are more concerned with attitude and results than gender, though - prove yourself capable, logical, sensible and eager to learn and gender will make little difference even if you decide that pink overalls are perfect and the crew room needs flowers.
Do be aware that getting into the university course doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be able to get a trainee job for the hands-on experience at the end of it. Times are tough; by the time you finish, hopefully things will have picked up again, but even then this is a hugely competitive industry. With the university course you'll have found the ladder, but you still need to get your foot on the bottom rung - and everyone you graduate with knows where the ladder is too.
The older generation always slates the younger generation, particularly the ones that think a degree is anything other than a licence to learn. It's not personal. After having heard some of the gaffes made by people with degrees out in the wider engineering world, they're absolutely and entirely justified in looking sideways at people with clean hands and bits of paper. It's not because you're female, it's because to them you don't understand how the real world works (which, fresh out of hands-off training, you don't). However, if you can prove that you're good for something useful and not just good at passing exams, they'll let you know you're okay, and sooner or later you'll be invited to give your opinion about this pillock fresh out of school who thinks he (or she) knows it all while not having the sense to come in out of the rain.
Attitude is everything, and being able to get bits of paper does not make an engineer - a lot of engineers can't pass exams, but that doesn't make them any less knowledgeable or competent. Being an engineer takes a logical mind, a willingness to learn, the capacity to acknowledge mistakes and the ability to work with others at the very least; in aviation, it takes diligence and precision as well, whether you're on the line, in the hangar, in the overhaul shop or in the office.
bh_ame, a BEng can't hurt. It's proof of potential that the outside world understands.
I do not recommend posting while tired and angry. It gives the rest of us girls a bad name.
It's a difficult industry for anyone to break into, and with the lack of women in engineering overall it's not surprising there are so few here. The number of female engineers is vanishingly small, and real engineering - understanding how it works at the deepest level, what can go wrong, how to faultfind and fix it - takes skills women rarely develop and a mindset we aren't encouraged to learn. I wish you much luck on your quest, but it isn't ever going to be easy. It's not easy for the guys either, but I hope you're used to male-dominated environments. Most engineers are more concerned with attitude and results than gender, though - prove yourself capable, logical, sensible and eager to learn and gender will make little difference even if you decide that pink overalls are perfect and the crew room needs flowers.
Do be aware that getting into the university course doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be able to get a trainee job for the hands-on experience at the end of it. Times are tough; by the time you finish, hopefully things will have picked up again, but even then this is a hugely competitive industry. With the university course you'll have found the ladder, but you still need to get your foot on the bottom rung - and everyone you graduate with knows where the ladder is too.
The older generation always slates the younger generation, particularly the ones that think a degree is anything other than a licence to learn. It's not personal. After having heard some of the gaffes made by people with degrees out in the wider engineering world, they're absolutely and entirely justified in looking sideways at people with clean hands and bits of paper. It's not because you're female, it's because to them you don't understand how the real world works (which, fresh out of hands-off training, you don't). However, if you can prove that you're good for something useful and not just good at passing exams, they'll let you know you're okay, and sooner or later you'll be invited to give your opinion about this pillock fresh out of school who thinks he (or she) knows it all while not having the sense to come in out of the rain.
Attitude is everything, and being able to get bits of paper does not make an engineer - a lot of engineers can't pass exams, but that doesn't make them any less knowledgeable or competent. Being an engineer takes a logical mind, a willingness to learn, the capacity to acknowledge mistakes and the ability to work with others at the very least; in aviation, it takes diligence and precision as well, whether you're on the line, in the hangar, in the overhaul shop or in the office.
bh_ame, a BEng can't hurt. It's proof of potential that the outside world understands.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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The older generation always look down on the younger generation. I did a four year appreticship and I was looked down on by guys who had done a FIVE year course!!!
Rgds Dr I
Rgds Dr I
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Ref LaLa....
So, that's the explanation for your first post..tired and angry. Funny, but that is what my wife is like at least once very 4 weeks!! Ooops, I probably shouldn't say that in these pc times! (although you may have to get used to that sort of humour if you want a career in aircraft maintenance). Sexist pig? Possibly, but only in the best of humour!!
Seriously though...oh to be 18 again!! I can certainly recognise some of that attitude! Good luck to you girl!
I wish you the best of luck in finding a decent position in the future.
The scary thing is that it seems like only yesterday that I was having similar thoughts about all these old codgers in their 40's who were moaning at me for doing something wrong through my lack of experience and thinking that I knew better. But guess what? I am now that old codger in my 40's moaning at the 20-somethings who are doing something silly! And yes, that includes some young females where I work who are still gaining their experience!
One thing to remember though, when you do get your opportunity make sure your attitude is spot on. If you show you are prepared to work hard, listen and learn you will not go far wrong. Be willing and gain the respect of your peers then you will not go far wrong. If you show a bolshey attitude then you will probably be shown the door quicker than you can say 'Licenced Engineer'!
Good Luck!
So, that's the explanation for your first post..tired and angry. Funny, but that is what my wife is like at least once very 4 weeks!! Ooops, I probably shouldn't say that in these pc times! (although you may have to get used to that sort of humour if you want a career in aircraft maintenance). Sexist pig? Possibly, but only in the best of humour!!
Seriously though...oh to be 18 again!! I can certainly recognise some of that attitude! Good luck to you girl!
I wish you the best of luck in finding a decent position in the future.
The scary thing is that it seems like only yesterday that I was having similar thoughts about all these old codgers in their 40's who were moaning at me for doing something wrong through my lack of experience and thinking that I knew better. But guess what? I am now that old codger in my 40's moaning at the 20-somethings who are doing something silly! And yes, that includes some young females where I work who are still gaining their experience!
One thing to remember though, when you do get your opportunity make sure your attitude is spot on. If you show you are prepared to work hard, listen and learn you will not go far wrong. Be willing and gain the respect of your peers then you will not go far wrong. If you show a bolshey attitude then you will probably be shown the door quicker than you can say 'Licenced Engineer'!
Good Luck!
Last edited by eng123; 21st Jan 2010 at 11:31.
It's not all doom and gloom re job prospects. Where I work the youngest is approaching 40!!
Most of the guys where I work are between 6 and 12 that is because they continue to act their shoe size not their age!!!!
Taking yourself seriously is not an option. End result a great place to work.
Should the job end I probably would not miss it, but the crewroom banter would be a great loss.
If you get the right job with the right people this job can be an absolute joy. Where else can you go for hours of free entertainment and get paid as well.
Taking yourself seriously is not an option. End result a great place to work.
Should the job end I probably would not miss it, but the crewroom banter would be a great loss.
If you get the right job with the right people this job can be an absolute joy. Where else can you go for hours of free entertainment and get paid as well.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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The real problem as I see it is EASA and integration of standards across the countries involved that were never compatible. In some countries within the EU we are not considered engineers thus deskilling the trade in general. Also in some countries within the EU apprenticeships didn't exist as the norm and you had to put yourself through some form of aeronautical course. Regrettably this is now becoming the norm in countries that before had the standard apprenticeship. Also people are no longer joining the forces as apprentices like bygone days. The opportunity to integrate into part of a team and learning directly from your peers is now disappearing meaning that the gap between the academic and practical realities of the job are being lost and it will take longer to gain the necessary experience to further your career. All of this will have knock on effects on salaries going forward meaning that it will take longer to gain a decent package, by the time you have the experience and the corresponding qualifications the goalposts will have changed yet again. Not to mention the influx of cheap work apparently qualified (on paper at least) who are further diluting the profession.
I have been listening to the shortage of engineers story for the last 20 years and it has never materialised, the only thing that has, has been the constant erosion of pay & conditions. Also take into account you will probably be made redundant more than once in your career.
For all of the above bear in mind that we still work shift, study constantly and sign out machines that carry hundreds of people daily. A doctor who makes a mistake can kill one person, one of us could be responsible for hundreds.
As aircraft designs improve going into the future the necessity for high numbers of skilled people will also diminish.
The conclusion of this rant is, think long and hard before commiting to this industry. It has been good to me (and my father before me) but I will not be recommending it to my son for the above comments. There are easier ways to make a living. It also seems that maintenance is going the way of flying, you now have to pay to become an engineer............
Apologies for the negativity, it's just how I see it and obviously the current recession is not helping.
Brgds
SB03
I have been listening to the shortage of engineers story for the last 20 years and it has never materialised, the only thing that has, has been the constant erosion of pay & conditions. Also take into account you will probably be made redundant more than once in your career.
For all of the above bear in mind that we still work shift, study constantly and sign out machines that carry hundreds of people daily. A doctor who makes a mistake can kill one person, one of us could be responsible for hundreds.
As aircraft designs improve going into the future the necessity for high numbers of skilled people will also diminish.
The conclusion of this rant is, think long and hard before commiting to this industry. It has been good to me (and my father before me) but I will not be recommending it to my son for the above comments. There are easier ways to make a living. It also seems that maintenance is going the way of flying, you now have to pay to become an engineer............
Apologies for the negativity, it's just how I see it and obviously the current recession is not helping.
Brgds
SB03
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Well done EASA, sadly not the vocation I joined some 39 years ago, when I made my first certifcations in 1980 I had already been touching and working on aircraft for many years, had a very good working knowledge of what was required, dad was stood by my side, now fresh techs with no one by there side when it matters.
Sadly in recent contracts the college graduate with no experiance are getting the positions as the companies love a YES MAN (CAN CAN) with no idea, just sign there name for anything because it saves the company money and the staff hassle. There exeperienced staff all left and the new kids are left in charge, when a guy with years of experience arrives of a different religion or nationallity they feel insecure and go out of there way to high lite these trouble makers (in there eyes).
Sadly in recent contracts the college graduate with no experiance are getting the positions as the companies love a YES MAN (CAN CAN) with no idea, just sign there name for anything because it saves the company money and the staff hassle. There exeperienced staff all left and the new kids are left in charge, when a guy with years of experience arrives of a different religion or nationallity they feel insecure and go out of there way to high lite these trouble makers (in there eyes).
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I am looking to workn in UK in future
I am still young in aviation with just three years of exp and working for CX India. With B1 under my belt i would love to work in uk in coming years. I have lived there for 3 years and learned a lot. I had a great exp and would love to return. But one thing bothers me most will i be employable considering my NON-EU status. Will my job prospects be real good if i manage to have a permit to work. Any sugesstions or advice?
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Jobs on the line.
Most vacancies filled by company's own staff (if they have base maint)other than that you,ll have to be "known" to engineers already at that base.In this industry your reputation always precedes you!
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mmm, very interesting.
It really is as simple as this,
You can gain your modules either by going to an 'approved' 147 school or you can self study and pass the modules that way.
How you gain the experience is upto you, connie first, go permy try an apprentice. I can guarantee that either one will churn out bad/good/exceptional engineers/fitters/technicians.
Having an ability to learn a new trade is down to the individual and his approach to the aircraft, if a new college kid is bad mannered then surely he wont go far and his superiors will note and act on this. On the other hand there might be a college leaver who learns quickly and advances equally as fast as someone who has worked on aircraft all there lives. A spectrum of individual qualities and abilities allows airlines to choose who they recruit, not the other way around.
Prove your worth and perhaps, maybe youll be chosen. I dont like all this negative attitude it really does prove that this industry contains THICK, small minded people who are clearly uneducated and lack any real substance or credible argument.
Experience, education go hand in hand, choose your route, ajust your tolerance levels and have a willingness to respect those that deserve it.
It maybe worth remembering experience in any professional job is not enough. Lawyers, doctors, pilots etc all goto college/uni first.
Good luck to everyone, except the small minded.
You can gain your modules either by going to an 'approved' 147 school or you can self study and pass the modules that way.
How you gain the experience is upto you, connie first, go permy try an apprentice. I can guarantee that either one will churn out bad/good/exceptional engineers/fitters/technicians.
Having an ability to learn a new trade is down to the individual and his approach to the aircraft, if a new college kid is bad mannered then surely he wont go far and his superiors will note and act on this. On the other hand there might be a college leaver who learns quickly and advances equally as fast as someone who has worked on aircraft all there lives. A spectrum of individual qualities and abilities allows airlines to choose who they recruit, not the other way around.
Prove your worth and perhaps, maybe youll be chosen. I dont like all this negative attitude it really does prove that this industry contains THICK, small minded people who are clearly uneducated and lack any real substance or credible argument.
Experience, education go hand in hand, choose your route, ajust your tolerance levels and have a willingness to respect those that deserve it.
It maybe worth remembering experience in any professional job is not enough. Lawyers, doctors, pilots etc all goto college/uni first.
Good luck to everyone, except the small minded.
Join Date: Jan 2010
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26 years in the industry, at the frontline keeping the pilooks happy, to dig the crap out of toilets again. Today the industry is run by the accountants, cutting the maintenance budgets, cutting the training budgets and slashing wages and manpower. Used to have good wages in the business, now on the waste-heap after being a victim of the recession. Business used this as an excuse to get rid of the work force.... but still plenty of pilot jobs and new planes being bought.....WHO'S FIXING THEM??? The cheapest bidder of course.
It maybe worth remembering experience in any professional job is not enough. Lawyers, doctors, pilots etc all goto college/uni first.
Something I was told when at college was that often the Flt Engineer was the most qualified and educated member of the crew. (Didn't do 'em much good though).
As for lawyers and doctors, agreed they do the degree in law/medicine first but they still have to have their hand held for a few years before they are let loose on their own. Quite right too, I wouldn't want to go under the knife of a surgeon who had only 'done the degree'.