The Job Of A Engineer

[JamieMac]

Hi guys.

I do not want to make this sound rude but what is the role of aircraft engineer? what sort of jobs do they do?

Also what is the difference between a aircraft engineer, a aircraft mechanic and a aircraft technician?

Thanks for your time

Jamie

[Miles Gustaph]

Licensed engineers can through professional qualification and development gain approvals from an approved maintenance organization (145) to certify work carried out to an aircraft, its components and whole aircraft, subject to the approved capabilities of the approved maintenance organization.

Whether a licensed engineer turns spanners depends on trade, fixed wing, rotary wing and many other factors of the industry.

Technician or mechanics generally do turn spanners and may gain certification privileges from their maintenance organization. These however are usually confined to limited or simple tasks, normally associated with line work.

I have generalized...

[Genghis the Engineer]

And the terminology changes enormously between country and organisation.

What is called a licenced engineer in the UK (highly trained and qualified) might well be called a mechanic in the US, whilst the term mechanic in the UK implies probably unskilled where aircraft are concerned.

The other term you may have come across is "aeronautical engineer" or "aerospace engineer" which tends to imply graduates (university trained) rather than skilled (apprenticeship + college trained). There's no real standard job for an aeronautical engineer, it's more about having the skill set that can then be used for a wide variety of jobs.

The UK Engineering council would admit what in the aircraft industry we call licenced engineers as "engineering technicians" into its national register, whilst it tends to restrict the term "engineer" to graduates only - a restriction which is certainly not recognised within the aircraft industry.

G

[JamieMac]

thanks, i have always been uncertain on what the difference was. If i wanted to actually fix the aircraft (e.g turn spanners, replace parts) which would i be? Aircraft mechanic?

How would i become one of these?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by JamieMac

thanks, i have always been uncertain on what the difference was. If i wanted to actually fix the aircraft (e.g turn spanners, replace parts) which would i be? Aircraft mechanic?

How would i become one of these?

In the UK, that's what we call a licenced engineer, or a ground engineer.

Loads of threads here on that - just do a search, but in a nutshell, one of...

- College JAR-66 course
- Apprenticeship with an aircraft operator or maintenance company
- Join one of the services as an aircraft ground engineer.

All good valid routes, and there's loads of information here, just have a trawl and use the search function.

G

[Miles Gustaph]

Jamie,
I would suggest that if you actually want to get dirty and work on aircraft that your going to want to aim to become licensed.

If you go to the CAA website and look up the ELGD, engineers licensing guidance document it gives you most of the info your looking for.

I my get hunted down by your mother for suggesting this, but you could join the military to get the experience and sit your exams, a lot of engineers in the industry are ex-military... it pays better than an apprenticeship, that's if you can get one.

Good luck

[JamieMac]

thanks guy for your replies.

Is the military a good route to go down?

i recently seen a apprenticeship with ryanair at prestwick airport.

Does this pay well as a job? What sort of wage does a engineer bring home?

Thanks

Jamie

[spannersatcx]

Is the military a good route to go down?

No.

It used to be, but if you want to work on civil aircraft within EASA (possibly other states as well) then for the purpose of becoming a Licenced Engineer within EASA military stuff is not recognised anymore.

I did 12 years in the RAF many years ago and when I gained my first licence in 1989 training and experience was recognised, these days it's not, so if your ultimate aim is to be a LAE in the civil world then the military is not the way to go, in my opinion.

There are apprenticeships out there, but they are few and far between, what with the economic downturn and all that. Unfortunately a lot of airlines do not look at investing in the future as the beans counters can only see this years profits and maybe next years.

When the old farts like me start retiring in a few years, there will be gaps that can not be filled due to a lack of investment, what will happen is the big players will pressure the CAA and EASA into believeing the highly qualified/experience engineer is not necessary and is a burden on their profits so will dumb down the knowledge and experience needed to work on and certify highly complex aircraft, that's until the first incident anyway.

Earnings would depend on what licence and type ratings you hold, where you are and what shifts you do, a rough ball park figure at this time for say a B1 with a couple of types with shift pay would be around £45K give or take.

[JamieMac]

thanks very much for the last post spannersatcx.

would i apply to a airline direct or are there companys that do the maintainence for them? like a sub contract?

I know i sound very picky and stuff but it would be mechanical stuff e.g engines, landing gear that sort of thing that i would want to work on. Is that a b2 engineer? or do u get b1 and b2?

I am currently a apprentice vehicle technician, would this be a advantage to applying to a company or would it not matter?

thanks for your time people, it is very much appreciated

[JamieMac]

thanks very much for the last post spannersatcx.

would i apply to a airline direct or are there companys that do the maintainence for them? like a sub contract?

I know i sound very picky and stuff but it would be mechanical stuff e.g engines, landing gear that sort of thing that i would want to work on. Is that a b2 engineer? or do u get b1 and b2?

I am currently a apprentice vehicle technician, would this be a advantage to applying to a company or would it not matter?

thanks for your time people, it is very much appreciated

[TURIN]

The Job Of An Engineer

Just to add (and I know I'm going to get abuse for this) it would help if you could locate the letter 'n' on your keyboard.

a advantage

a apprentice

a engineer

a aircraft engineer, a aircraft mechanic and a aircraft technician?

There is a serious point to this.

You will be doing a hell of a lot of writing when you become an LAE. Being able to communicate effectively with others in your field (and aircrew) will be vital to your role.

The pen is often mightier than the spanner.

Best of luck and don't let the miserable old gits like me get you down!

[JamieMac]

TURIN - thanks for your input into my thread. Yes once i read it i understand what you mean, my mistake.

Thanks for the luck aswell

[JamieMac]

The pen is often mightier than the spanner

I said earlier on in the thread i think, that i was wanting to get my hands dirty and actually work on the aircraft. Would i be doing this a engineer?

[Hand Shandy]

Manning levels are generally slashed to the bone on line stations Jaime , so you can have your hand down a toilet trying to get a nappy out of a dump valve one minute to trying to fix an autopilot the next . Of course, you could wear gloves .

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just coming back to the point of the military.

Joining the military is an excellent route - if what you want to spend at-least a major part of your career in uniform working on military aeroplanes (and why not, many people have had no regrets about such a career route).

But, don't do it as a route to a civil career - do it because a job in uniform or with military aircraft is what you want, no other reason.


Also echoing TURIN's point: few engineers manage to avoid a lot of written communications during their career: as well as the technical work which is our bread and butter. Your written English will be important: so capital "I", "an" before a vowel, don't separate sentence clauses with commas... Sadly modern school education is shockingly bad in this regard so to some extent you can blame your school teachers, but ultimately an employer doesn't care about that and you need to get your written English sorted out.

G

[boeing_eng]

There is some useful info on the various License types and the various paths into the Industry at:

Aircraft Engineering introductory year, foundation degree FdEng and top-up year BSc(Hons) - Course Information - Undergraduate Students - Kingston University London

The Military route is not mentioned, but echoing what others have said, (I'm ex RAF myself!) the merits of going this way these days are limited. There are now no exemptions from the EASA exams for military training and the quality of Forces training is not what it once was.

As I've mentioned to other youngsters, it’s a demanding, rewarding and varied career (but don't expect it to be easy or a path to rapid riches!)

[Miles Gustaph]

Guys,
it's mentioned a few times here that military time doesn't get you exam exemptions these days, but don't forget the lad is just 18 and needs his 4 and a bit years to even become licensed.

Time in the military would teach him to drink, socialize and fix aircraft, and if he was dedicated as with any route into the industry, he could sit his exams then gain a restricted license until he gets his 12 months commercial experience.

There are still people coming out of the Senior service, the Army and the other lot who enter the commercial world down the license route.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Why this mentality that the military is only useful as a route to a civil aircraft career? Isn't anybody allowed to want a career in the RAF / Army / Navy any more?

G

[mitzy69]

difference between a mechanic and an engineer

a stewardess once asked a friend what was the difference between a mechanic and an engineer as if it did not matter and just splitting hairs.
His reply was about £10,000 a year.

[spannersatcx]

To answer an earlier question, B1 is mechanically orientated, although these days it does involve a lot more on the avionics side. B2 is avionic (electrical) orientated. There's nothing to stop you gaining both, except a lot of hard work and studying and exams.....to get both. People tend to start off as one and may gain the other later.

There are or were seperate maintenance organisations that offer apprenticeships, not sure these days though, Monarch do, not sure about Thomas Cook etc, Virgin do, no idea about BA (doubt it).

BAMC certainly used skilled people from different areas, vehicle mechanics etc, that is a BA subsiduary in Cardiff.

If all you want to do is work on aircraft, I would try the civil route first rather than the military but that's just my opinion.