Oxygen mask pre flight test.
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Oxygen mask pre flight test.
Does anyone know where I can get documentation as to the correct testing procedure for flight deck oxygen mask system. Inflating harness bucket stored type as found in ATR 42/72 and other Airbus I believe. Looking through the Fcom and MEL I have found the description of the various buttons etc and some of the tests, but nowhere can I find a clear detailed explanation of the harnes inflation test. Is this required for dispatch? Can the harness be damaged and listed as deferd. Any help with this would be appreciated since I'm currently fighting with our engineers about this. I feel the quick donning function is important. Engineers feel that it is not and the pilots are whinning little kids throwing their toys around the sand box.
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What does it tell you to do in your Ops Manual or equivalent?
What does your Chief Pilot / Flight Technical Manager say on the subject?
In my experience, for boxed quick-don masks, pre-flight test is to hit the test button and ensure the flow indicator shows oxygen flow.
A general visual inspection of the removed mask and inflatable harness, operation of the quick don harness, operation of mask mic and cleaning of the mask and stowage is carried out on scheduled maintenance at a period specified in the Aircraft Maintenance Program. The AMP is derived from the Maintenance Planning Document published by the aircraft manufacturer and approved by the NAA in the country of manufacture. Many "experts" are involved in writing the MPD looking at failure modes, whether the failure would be evident, impact of the failure, etc., then decide on what inspections / tests should be carried out and how often to ensure continued serviceability of the system.
How to carry out the tests and inspections is detailed in the Aircraft Maintenance Manual.
Could a damaged mask or harness be deferred - I doubt it as it is safety equipment but if you have read the MEL, what does it say?
Is the quick donning function important - yes, otherwise why would we have it. Does it need testing every day, in my opinion, no, what could go wrong with it on a day to day basis, packed away in its stowage? The AMP will call for the required inspections and tests at the appropriate time to maintain serviceability. Pulling the thing out of its stowage every day and having to get an engineer to repack it the correct way will probably cause more damage than good and a waste of time and money.
I would suggest you speak to somebody in your maintenance planning team to take you through the AMP and AMM to put your concerns to rest.
What does your Chief Pilot / Flight Technical Manager say on the subject?
In my experience, for boxed quick-don masks, pre-flight test is to hit the test button and ensure the flow indicator shows oxygen flow.
A general visual inspection of the removed mask and inflatable harness, operation of the quick don harness, operation of mask mic and cleaning of the mask and stowage is carried out on scheduled maintenance at a period specified in the Aircraft Maintenance Program. The AMP is derived from the Maintenance Planning Document published by the aircraft manufacturer and approved by the NAA in the country of manufacture. Many "experts" are involved in writing the MPD looking at failure modes, whether the failure would be evident, impact of the failure, etc., then decide on what inspections / tests should be carried out and how often to ensure continued serviceability of the system.
How to carry out the tests and inspections is detailed in the Aircraft Maintenance Manual.
Could a damaged mask or harness be deferred - I doubt it as it is safety equipment but if you have read the MEL, what does it say?
Is the quick donning function important - yes, otherwise why would we have it. Does it need testing every day, in my opinion, no, what could go wrong with it on a day to day basis, packed away in its stowage? The AMP will call for the required inspections and tests at the appropriate time to maintain serviceability. Pulling the thing out of its stowage every day and having to get an engineer to repack it the correct way will probably cause more damage than good and a waste of time and money.
I would suggest you speak to somebody in your maintenance planning team to take you through the AMP and AMM to put your concerns to rest.
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Surely, if it's a check you should perform routinely, your company procedures and documentation would inform you how to complete the task?
if it's a check carried out on a scheduled maintenance routine by engineering, then it's their job and can understand why they would take umbrage and accuse pilots of "Throwing their toys around the sandbox."
Secondly, you might get a better response on a pilots forum, not ask us engineers to stitch up our professional colleagues on the engineers forum!
Shinobi
if it's a check carried out on a scheduled maintenance routine by engineering, then it's their job and can understand why they would take umbrage and accuse pilots of "Throwing their toys around the sandbox."
Secondly, you might get a better response on a pilots forum, not ask us engineers to stitch up our professional colleagues on the engineers forum!
Shinobi
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I asked on here because I wanted to give them an opinion from another engineer. I am aware of the push button for the flow test. But the part I have come into disagreement with is the in box test of the harness self inflation. By squezing the red tabs and pressing the test button simultaniously the harness function can be checked without removing the mask.
During training we were informed this was the proper check to be carried out on the first flight of the day. Our Fcom only describes the funtions of the various butons etc It does not mention in detail the test of the system. In the cockpit preperation checklist, it only tells us to check that the mask is stowed and that there is sufficient oxygen for flight. As for the MEL there is no mention of oxygen masks for flight deck.
Also, to give an example of another problem, what is the limit of main wheel wear? Our pilots manuals do not cover this. I would love to be able to get my hands on the maintenance manuals to learn some more about the aircraft myself and in greater detail, but such ideas are not welcomed here.
I'm well aware of the stigma between pilots and Engineers since I used to work on the maintenance side. And in previous companies have always made the effort to go to the hangar to learn about the aircraft when it was down and to understand the systems better and also get the opinions of the staff. Which I felt was always appreciated by them. But in my new company things are totally diffrent and I feel it is a shame that I should need to come on here to get an Engineers opinion on the aircraft and systems I use everyday.
During training we were informed this was the proper check to be carried out on the first flight of the day. Our Fcom only describes the funtions of the various butons etc It does not mention in detail the test of the system. In the cockpit preperation checklist, it only tells us to check that the mask is stowed and that there is sufficient oxygen for flight. As for the MEL there is no mention of oxygen masks for flight deck.
Also, to give an example of another problem, what is the limit of main wheel wear? Our pilots manuals do not cover this. I would love to be able to get my hands on the maintenance manuals to learn some more about the aircraft myself and in greater detail, but such ideas are not welcomed here.
I'm well aware of the stigma between pilots and Engineers since I used to work on the maintenance side. And in previous companies have always made the effort to go to the hangar to learn about the aircraft when it was down and to understand the systems better and also get the opinions of the staff. Which I felt was always appreciated by them. But in my new company things are totally diffrent and I feel it is a shame that I should need to come on here to get an Engineers opinion on the aircraft and systems I use everyday.
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747 a/c 1000 HR ROUTINE A CHECK ITEM
(cut from the BMM)
Do a visual check of the mask, hoses, harness, regulator, cord, and
microphone assembly:
(a) Make sure the parts are clean:
1) Examine the parts for deterioration
2) Make sure there is no discoloration
3) Make sure the parts do not have cracks
4) Make sure the parts do not have more damage.
(b) Make sure the fittings and connections are attached correctly.
(c) Replace the mask, hose, regulator, or all parts that are not in
satisfactory condition microphone assembly:
(a) Make sure the parts are clean:
1) Examine the parts for deterioration
2) Make sure there is no discoloration
3) Make sure the parts do not have cracks
4) Make sure the parts do not have more damage.
(b) Make sure the fittings and connections are attached correctly.
(c) Replace the mask, hose, regulator, or all parts that are not in
(4) Put the mask/regulator back in the stowage box
The only damage I have ever found is frayed harness from opening & repacking.
SC
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 21st Feb 2009 at 02:27.
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The mask must work properly (including harness inflation) and as such in addition to the preflight oxygen flow check c/o by the flight crew the masks will be removed and inspected/tested at regular intervals as stated in the Maintenance schedule.
Bear in mind that removal of the mask from the stowage requires an engineer to restow iaw the Maintenance Manual - most short haul operations do not have engineering attendance at each transit so if you remove the mask you might have problems finding someone to put it back.
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"During training we were informed this was the proper check to be carried out on the first flight of the day."
Your trainer gave you duff gen I'm afraid. That may have been one instructor's opinion at one training school. If ALL your colleagues were given the same instruction when doing their CPL at all the different training schools as that is what is in the JAR-FCL (or whatever reg it is now) curriculum and exams then there may be something to be looked into but I seriously doubt this. Ask yourself this - "After all these years, why hasn't any pilot (Chief Pilot, Technical Pilot, Flight Safety Officer, CAA Flight Standards Inspector, etc.) taken up this cause before me?"
"As for the MEL there is no mention of oxygen masks for flight deck."
No dispatch if unserviceable then.
"Also, to give an example of another problem, what is the limit of main wheel wear?"
Bit more of a worry this as you are doing the walkround inspection and signing for the serviceability of the aircraft including the tyres. Was it covered in the technical part of your type training or the Technical exams of your CPL? For further info, go to the CAA website and search for Airworthiness Notice 5 (AN 05) and /or ask the engineers if you could look at the AMM for your own education. A quick Google will also take you to the Dunlop tech support website.
"I'm well aware of the stigma between pilots and Engineers since I used to work on the maintenance side."
There isn't any stigma as far as I'm aware, just a desire for a two-way level of respect for our profession. How would you feel if an engineer on a jump seat flight critiqued you on an approach or landing? How have you made your concerns known to engineers so far? Think CRM. Perhaps there is a bigger issue of some reason for friction between pilots and engineers in your new company that has been going on since before you joined that you're not aware of.
"I feel it is a shame that I should need to come on here to get an Engineers opinion on the aircraft and systems I use everyday."
Yes, it is a shame. And four engineers have given their opinion now.
Your trainer gave you duff gen I'm afraid. That may have been one instructor's opinion at one training school. If ALL your colleagues were given the same instruction when doing their CPL at all the different training schools as that is what is in the JAR-FCL (or whatever reg it is now) curriculum and exams then there may be something to be looked into but I seriously doubt this. Ask yourself this - "After all these years, why hasn't any pilot (Chief Pilot, Technical Pilot, Flight Safety Officer, CAA Flight Standards Inspector, etc.) taken up this cause before me?"
"As for the MEL there is no mention of oxygen masks for flight deck."
No dispatch if unserviceable then.
"Also, to give an example of another problem, what is the limit of main wheel wear?"
Bit more of a worry this as you are doing the walkround inspection and signing for the serviceability of the aircraft including the tyres. Was it covered in the technical part of your type training or the Technical exams of your CPL? For further info, go to the CAA website and search for Airworthiness Notice 5 (AN 05) and /or ask the engineers if you could look at the AMM for your own education. A quick Google will also take you to the Dunlop tech support website.
"I'm well aware of the stigma between pilots and Engineers since I used to work on the maintenance side."
There isn't any stigma as far as I'm aware, just a desire for a two-way level of respect for our profession. How would you feel if an engineer on a jump seat flight critiqued you on an approach or landing? How have you made your concerns known to engineers so far? Think CRM. Perhaps there is a bigger issue of some reason for friction between pilots and engineers in your new company that has been going on since before you joined that you're not aware of.
"I feel it is a shame that I should need to come on here to get an Engineers opinion on the aircraft and systems I use everyday."
Yes, it is a shame. And four engineers have given their opinion now.
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Sopa Box Cowboy,
If you have been on both sides of the maintenance/crew fence, you should know that maintenance test procedures and crew test procedures are not necessesarily the same thing. You should also know that maintenance's appreciation of operational concerns and considerations are generally somewhat limited.
The in-situ pre-flight test of the EROS quick donning mask should/must be described in your FCOM. Is your company using the manufacturers FCOM or a company version?
The test procedure found in a FCOM from a rather large manufacturer based in the south of France says:
The test is for the first flight of the day only or at crew change.
If you have been on both sides of the maintenance/crew fence, you should know that maintenance test procedures and crew test procedures are not necessesarily the same thing. You should also know that maintenance's appreciation of operational concerns and considerations are generally somewhat limited.
The in-situ pre-flight test of the EROS quick donning mask should/must be described in your FCOM. Is your company using the manufacturers FCOM or a company version?
The test procedure found in a FCOM from a rather large manufacturer based in the south of France says:
- Check oxygen flow blinker shows black.
- Check loudspeaker on and check volume.
- Set transmission lever on control wheel or audio panel to INT.
- Set on audio panel INT reception and set volume.
- Push down and hold TEST/RESET side control and observe momentary flow indication.
- Notice oxygen flow sound through loudspeakers.
- Squeeze side levers to inflate the harness.
- Check momentary flow indication.
- Release side levers.
- Set/check N/100% manual control to 100%.
The test is for the first flight of the day only or at crew change.
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Ah Conan thanks, this is the answer I'm looking for. We have the bare bones minimum manufactures FCOM, is there a way I could get a copy of this from some official channel, or could you tell me where I could find it, I've been rooting around the FCOM's we were given during our type ratings and the one's in the aircraft, but I have yet to come accross a detailed version like you have posted.
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Cockpit O2 mask sanitation
Greetings.
Just wondering if anyone else has frequent upper respiratory infections after using cockpit O2 masks?
Yes my company offers sani wipes but it is hard to get into all the crevices and areas of the mask.
Just wondering.
Lumpy
Just wondering if anyone else has frequent upper respiratory infections after using cockpit O2 masks?
Yes my company offers sani wipes but it is hard to get into all the crevices and areas of the mask.
Just wondering.
Lumpy
