LH engineer seriously injured at MAN 13th Nov
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HotDog
Your guarded apology in your post 79 is accepted with grace, the patronising comments in posts 66 and 67 I take with a degree of unease. Flight Engineers do not tell Ground Engineers what to do. In this case the call was right but in the case of doubtful wear limits, the MM is the arbiter, and ultimately, it's the Captain's call. I have on several occasions had cause to question a walkaround call and asked the F/E to log it when he gets upstairs. I will then inspect, and if need be sign off per mm 32-45-00 and let the Captain decide. BTW, I have 38 years Line experience as a Licensed Engineer, many of which have been spent on B742/3, I am still unsure if I could have seen the cracks on the inner hub through the cooling holes as most of the inservice hubs I see are black with brake dust. It is my experience that Ground Engineers do not want to fight the Flight Engineers, the common goal is to offer a safe and airworthy aircraft for service. Tyre are nasty things and as can be seen in this post, and can bite without warning.
I really do hope this guy makes a speedy recovery and my thoughts are with him and his family, there but for the grace of God go I . . .
Your guarded apology in your post 79 is accepted with grace, the patronising comments in posts 66 and 67 I take with a degree of unease. Flight Engineers do not tell Ground Engineers what to do. In this case the call was right but in the case of doubtful wear limits, the MM is the arbiter, and ultimately, it's the Captain's call. I have on several occasions had cause to question a walkaround call and asked the F/E to log it when he gets upstairs. I will then inspect, and if need be sign off per mm 32-45-00 and let the Captain decide. BTW, I have 38 years Line experience as a Licensed Engineer, many of which have been spent on B742/3, I am still unsure if I could have seen the cracks on the inner hub through the cooling holes as most of the inservice hubs I see are black with brake dust. It is my experience that Ground Engineers do not want to fight the Flight Engineers, the common goal is to offer a safe and airworthy aircraft for service. Tyre are nasty things and as can be seen in this post, and can bite without warning.
I really do hope this guy makes a speedy recovery and my thoughts are with him and his family, there but for the grace of God go I . . .
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Glad he is recovering,
I remember a VC10 taxying out where the rim dropped of the mainwheel, was a lot of discussion how to deflate it safetly, in the end and what I thought was stupidly they got the last person to work on it in the bay to go in screw a deflator into the valve then run out sharpish, it went down without coming off.... They came up with a hundred and one stupid ideas along the way BTW.
I remember a VC10 taxying out where the rim dropped of the mainwheel, was a lot of discussion how to deflate it safetly, in the end and what I thought was stupidly they got the last person to work on it in the bay to go in screw a deflator into the valve then run out sharpish, it went down without coming off.... They came up with a hundred and one stupid ideas along the way BTW.
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too bad
I hope the lad recovers asap, and i hope that this serves as another wake up call to the things we normally take for granted since it seems to be a habit / or a regular practice of replacing wheels in which we don't even try to release the pressure even a bit.
Regarding Sir Terry's comment on letting the Captain decide on wether to fly the aircraft or not. I have to disagree on this one. It is right that you have to refer to the AMM ALWAYS! But, signing a release for an aircraft with that kind of damage on the wheel and letting the Captain decide is never and will never be a good decision.. I hope you don't take this personal sir. I just believe that we have a job to do and we have to do the job accordingly.
We can always make things safer if we want to.
Regarding Sir Terry's comment on letting the Captain decide on wether to fly the aircraft or not. I have to disagree on this one. It is right that you have to refer to the AMM ALWAYS! But, signing a release for an aircraft with that kind of damage on the wheel and letting the Captain decide is never and will never be a good decision.. I hope you don't take this personal sir. I just believe that we have a job to do and we have to do the job accordingly.
We can always make things safer if we want to.
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subsonic -With the example of the damaged wheel in this thread, in no way of course is the serviceability in question. The wheel and it's mate has to be changed as well as a full inspection of the brakes, truck etc, only then of course can it be offered for service. The point I am making is that in our job, I can offer an aircraft for service and occasionally there will be disagreement with the captain. It is the captain who has the last word as to whether he will take it or not, his and his alone. If he is not comfortable with an MEL for example then he ultimately takes responsibility as to if it goes or not, not me. What I was trying to illustrate, maybe not too well, is the " I told him to change it " remark from the F/E I find confrontational. If the wheel has broken into a zillion pieces then of course I'll change it. My personal working relationship with F/E's over the years has generally been good and I think between us we can get the job done ! Hope this explains it . . .
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Does anybody know ?
Is there available a preliminary report to this accident similar to the one issued for the exploding Oxygen Cylinder on the Qantas a/c.
This is such an important issue with so many personnel worldwide performing the same task daily.
This is such an important issue with so many personnel worldwide performing the same task daily.
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i get it sir
..then if that is the case sir then i would agree... it is true that sometimes the captain might ask for another aircraft if he decides not to fly the aircraft that we just signed for release. my apologies also if i misunderstood your point in your post sir..
and regarding the Qantas diversion to Manila try this linik --> http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...explosion.html
and regarding the Qantas diversion to Manila try this linik --> http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...explosion.html
Last edited by subsonic69; 9th Jan 2009 at 13:51.
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In a discussion with a Captain who wished to take an aircraft with an open fault, I informed him that whereas I could not make him take an aircraft (Captain's right of refusal) , he could not take one away from me until I released it (my airworthiness release as a licensed mechanic) Works both ways.
Tire explosions are ugly things - I inspected the wheel well of a B727-200 after it was partially repaired having suffered a tire explosion in Havana. We finished the repairs which were extensive. It looked like a bomb had gone off there and had the aircraft been in flight it would have gone down. Had personnel been in the area they would have been killed. The same airline had another one a bit later that that led to the Airworthiness Directive against using compressed air in braked wheels.
I have seen results of wheel explosions over my fifty plus years of maintenance. Several were due to using unregulated or high pressure regulators for filling tires. Early on in my career, a GSE person lost a lower jaw filling a bag cart tire directly off an 1800 psi bottle. Lack of thought does it too. A Constellation brake accumulator exploded when a mechanic went to lunch leaving a bootstrap compressor running to charge the accumulator. No one injured there thankfully. We can be our own worst enemies.
One airline developed a spiked chock for deflating tires that were dangerously hot or actually afire or had cracked or pieces of rim broken out. You placed it against the tire like a chock (approaching from the tread side of the tire) and used a tug to shove it up against the hollow spike. It would pierce the tire and deflate it. Quite effective and keeps you away from the side of the wheel where the danger is. Be worthwhile having one available and probably something the fire service people should have too.
Tire explosions are ugly things - I inspected the wheel well of a B727-200 after it was partially repaired having suffered a tire explosion in Havana. We finished the repairs which were extensive. It looked like a bomb had gone off there and had the aircraft been in flight it would have gone down. Had personnel been in the area they would have been killed. The same airline had another one a bit later that that led to the Airworthiness Directive against using compressed air in braked wheels.
I have seen results of wheel explosions over my fifty plus years of maintenance. Several were due to using unregulated or high pressure regulators for filling tires. Early on in my career, a GSE person lost a lower jaw filling a bag cart tire directly off an 1800 psi bottle. Lack of thought does it too. A Constellation brake accumulator exploded when a mechanic went to lunch leaving a bootstrap compressor running to charge the accumulator. No one injured there thankfully. We can be our own worst enemies.
One airline developed a spiked chock for deflating tires that were dangerously hot or actually afire or had cracked or pieces of rim broken out. You placed it against the tire like a chock (approaching from the tread side of the tire) and used a tug to shove it up against the hollow spike. It would pierce the tire and deflate it. Quite effective and keeps you away from the side of the wheel where the danger is. Be worthwhile having one available and probably something the fire service people should have too.
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if the technician had purged the line, he would have noticed that the pressure was a bit high from the regulator to inflate a cover!!
1500 PSI from a line tends to be noticed!
I'll get my coat..
1500 PSI from a line tends to be noticed!
I'll get my coat..
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Thanks for the link.....
From my perspective, there's enough training points in there to educate the baby engs I train very comprehensively.
On the other hand, and from a different life, strange that a LH eng should make such a series of errors...those I worked with / met were always very competent guys.
From my perspective, there's enough training points in there to educate the baby engs I train very comprehensively.
On the other hand, and from a different life, strange that a LH eng should make such a series of errors...those I worked with / met were always very competent guys.
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tonytech2's post -
Makes good sense to me. Any else use this?
One airline developed a spiked chock for deflating tires that were dangerously hot or actually on fire or had cracked or pieces of rim broken out. You placed it against the tire like a chock (approaching from the tread side of the tire) and used a tug to shove it up against the hollow spike. It would pierce the tire and deflate it. Quite effective and keeps you away from the side of the wheel where the danger is. Be worthwhile having one available and probably something the fire service people should have too.
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ARINC
210 Psi 15 Bar on the A380
Not sure if different tyre make changes the px?
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Driving a spike into an inflated tyre is a very dangerous proposition. The effects could end up in a blow out. If a wheel is suffering hot brakes / fire, then having fuseible plugs fitted is the only safe design feature. Trouble is they can go with Nigels using excessive braking on taxi etc. Damaged wheel? Fit a tyre deflator plug and retire sharpish..
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I seem to recall Lightning tyre px was around the 200 psi mark....a lot smaller and just as potentially lethal.....if you choose to abuse common sense and safety procedures.
As for the spike in a wheel, ok, does anybody have any photographs / vid evidence of this procedure at all ?.....personally, I would be happy to watch a demo....from behind a blast wall several hundred yards away.
I don't doubt the feasibility of the process for one minute....only the practical application which seems to contradict everything I have ever been taught about tyres.....always willing to learn however so I look forward to being educated.
As for the spike in a wheel, ok, does anybody have any photographs / vid evidence of this procedure at all ?.....personally, I would be happy to watch a demo....from behind a blast wall several hundred yards away.
I don't doubt the feasibility of the process for one minute....only the practical application which seems to contradict everything I have ever been taught about tyres.....always willing to learn however so I look forward to being educated.
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As for the spike in a wheel,
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Aircraft Tyre Pressures
Talking about aircraft tyre pressures, is there a central data base or listing showing the different pressures used for different aircraft? When inflating car tyres, there used to be a wall chart showing the pressures for most cars, the aircraft version of this is what I am looking for.
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?