Robbery without violence
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Robbery without violence
As an emgineer at an African airline I'm trying to come up with a way of managing life limited parts- portable oxygen bottles,fire extinguishers and megaphones for the aircraft in our fleet. We do an audit of the items at each check but once in a while some items are robbed to service other aircraft at line maintenance.
Robbery is a fact of life in this industry but what I wonder is whether it's feasible to track these pertable bottles by part and serial number. Would really like to hear your experiences because from what I hear tracking those items is like a wild goose chase and is it really worth it?
Robbery is a fact of life in this industry but what I wonder is whether it's feasible to track these pertable bottles by part and serial number. Would really like to hear your experiences because from what I hear tracking those items is like a wild goose chase and is it really worth it?
Last edited by Gitts; 27th Aug 2008 at 06:37.
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I wonder is whether it's feasible to track these portable bottles by part and serial number. The only way to track life limited parts is by Part number and serial number
Robbery is a fact of life in this industry Robbery is a stringently controlled process carried out and certified by Licensed and approved engineers only. Anyone else removing serialised equipment is invalidating the C of A and rendering the maintenance schedule useless.
from what I hear tracking those items is like a wild goose chase and is it really worth it? Not only is it worth having oxygen, fire extinguishers and megaphones that work when you need them I think you will find compliance with the approved maintenance schedule is a legal requirement.
Robbery is a fact of life in this industry Robbery is a stringently controlled process carried out and certified by Licensed and approved engineers only. Anyone else removing serialised equipment is invalidating the C of A and rendering the maintenance schedule useless.
from what I hear tracking those items is like a wild goose chase and is it really worth it? Not only is it worth having oxygen, fire extinguishers and megaphones that work when you need them I think you will find compliance with the approved maintenance schedule is a legal requirement.
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Then why not have a card system for all of them on your fleet, if it is robbed put it down on the cardex system as to which aircraft it has gone to, have the system divided up into a twelve month period and those due in certain months put the card into that month with all details of what and when it is due, you can then trace the item to the aircraft it is in and check at the start of the month which is due......... not rocket science but it works..failing that put it all on a PC and at the start of the month call up what is due that month.
you could also mark each item with coloured tape or tywraps so you can see at an instant what month they are all due....... that way a quick visual check of each aircraft will help as well
you could also mark each item with coloured tape or tywraps so you can see at an instant what month they are all due....... that way a quick visual check of each aircraft will help as well
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Hi Nutloose, I'm not implying that your suggestion is not good or helpful but....
On another post this chap states that he is a graduate engineer in the planning department of a large African Airline clearly on a type that is complex enough to require portable oxygen and megaphones. Now maybe something has been lost in translation here but it sure as hell scares me when I see someone looking on the internet for suggestions on how to track lifed components on aircraft that are already operating and where unauthorised and/or uncontrolled robbery appears to be accepted as a fact of life.
If this was from someone in a large UK airline I would be horrified then again maybe they operate into the UK?
On another post this chap states that he is a graduate engineer in the planning department of a large African Airline clearly on a type that is complex enough to require portable oxygen and megaphones. Now maybe something has been lost in translation here but it sure as hell scares me when I see someone looking on the internet for suggestions on how to track lifed components on aircraft that are already operating and where unauthorised and/or uncontrolled robbery appears to be accepted as a fact of life.
If this was from someone in a large UK airline I would be horrified then again maybe they operate into the UK?
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There is a simple way to track due dates on these items and that is to incorporate a physical check on these items during A checks or phase checks. Removing items which have less than three months remaining. Items with less than 3 months remaining life may not be fitted to the aircraft. This prevents any lifed item being in service beyond due date. In the case of chemical O2 generators these can be checked as part of the C check and removed or scheduled for removal prior to due date, chemical generators typically have a life of ten to twelve years which generally means they are replaced once by the operator. Replaced generators should have at least 18 months remaining. Chemical generators are marked with DOM.
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BeeBopp,
Know where you are coming from, but was just trying to show him it isnt exactly Rocket science to figure out.......... god help em when it comes to AD's, SB'S, SI's etc
Know where you are coming from, but was just trying to show him it isnt exactly Rocket science to figure out.......... god help em when it comes to AD's, SB'S, SI's etc
As good as it can be set-up an a database or card system; the problem of tracking these items is a real nightmare - thats why most airlines do carry out physical inventory checks as regularly as possible.
I would question any QA engineer who finds all the emergency equipment on a line aircraft, exactly as it is supposed to be from computer printouts. Portable Oxy bottles seem to be changed all the time, Vests go 'missing' (normally stolen) and if found missing (I've always worried about that phrase) replaced.
All are often replaced/installed in Ship-Sets to give some indication of control, but invariably items are changed or lost.
This wont help - but its all there is!
I would question any QA engineer who finds all the emergency equipment on a line aircraft, exactly as it is supposed to be from computer printouts. Portable Oxy bottles seem to be changed all the time, Vests go 'missing' (normally stolen) and if found missing (I've always worried about that phrase) replaced.
All are often replaced/installed in Ship-Sets to give some indication of control, but invariably items are changed or lost.
This wont help - but its all there is!
Hi there
We check the dates and general condition of all emergency items on every A check as well as tracking the S/Ns and expiry dates by computer.We physically check for presence, especially lifejackets, because so many pax steal the bloody things, especially Italian/Spanish students, who seem to regard them as trophies.
regards
TDD
We check the dates and general condition of all emergency items on every A check as well as tracking the S/Ns and expiry dates by computer.We physically check for presence, especially lifejackets, because so many pax steal the bloody things, especially Italian/Spanish students, who seem to regard them as trophies.
regards
TDD
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TDD does any one check that the S/No. that is listed on your computer is still in the same position in a years time.
This is why we don't track them, as line engineers will put a life jacket back under a seat if found on the floor, which is great until you get more than one in an area.
This can happen with more than one portable oxy cylinders if removed from a stowage during flight, which stowage does the cabin crew put it back in?
I have said previously the only way in my opinion is visual checks on hangar A" checks and the like, not the most cost effected way l know, but stops having out of date items.
This is why we don't track them, as line engineers will put a life jacket back under a seat if found on the floor, which is great until you get more than one in an area.
This can happen with more than one portable oxy cylinders if removed from a stowage during flight, which stowage does the cabin crew put it back in?
I have said previously the only way in my opinion is visual checks on hangar A" checks and the like, not the most cost effected way l know, but stops having out of date items.
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We had a similar issue at my last employer when hand-held extinguishers and life jackets were downgraded from rotables to consumables. It meant that we had no idea what was where, and we were only a cargo airline!
In the end we did as suggested by Mr @ Spotty M, and had regular checks, even daily in some cases, to confirm that essential safety equipment was installed and in life. A bit time-consuming but when you are dealing with "No go" items, probably the only way.
I once worked for a outfit headed up by a bent Middle Eastern A & P who on one occasion sold his company 727's cabin fire extinguisher to another operator, and then sold another fresh one back to the first aircraft
In the end we did as suggested by Mr @ Spotty M, and had regular checks, even daily in some cases, to confirm that essential safety equipment was installed and in life. A bit time-consuming but when you are dealing with "No go" items, probably the only way.
I once worked for a outfit headed up by a bent Middle Eastern A & P who on one occasion sold his company 727's cabin fire extinguisher to another operator, and then sold another fresh one back to the first aircraft
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Hi again people
I think my scant information has led to a mis-intepretation of what I meant. really painted a bad picture. We do our stuff right just trying to iron out this particular area of portable emergency equipment.
We do carry out checks of all emergency equipment as required during the A checks hence notice discrepancies from the last check.
The hitch comes in the tracking as per serial number on each aircraft. We need to track every item and know where it is in the fleet. that's the main problem we're having- control and verification. The robbery really complicates this as you'll have the items there all right during the hangar check but they'll be mixed up and we have to keep tabs on them for expiry and tests. Mr spotty we have aproblem with that as you can see.
Robbery is controlled but the engineers are not always as discipline as they should be. When I said robbery is a fact of life I meant it's necessary but the paperwork has to be done right which is not the case here.
Thanks for your input guys.
I think my scant information has led to a mis-intepretation of what I meant. really painted a bad picture. We do our stuff right just trying to iron out this particular area of portable emergency equipment.
We do carry out checks of all emergency equipment as required during the A checks hence notice discrepancies from the last check.
The hitch comes in the tracking as per serial number on each aircraft. We need to track every item and know where it is in the fleet. that's the main problem we're having- control and verification. The robbery really complicates this as you'll have the items there all right during the hangar check but they'll be mixed up and we have to keep tabs on them for expiry and tests. Mr spotty we have aproblem with that as you can see.
Robbery is controlled but the engineers are not always as discipline as they should be. When I said robbery is a fact of life I meant it's necessary but the paperwork has to be done right which is not the case here.
Thanks for your input guys.
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why not raise cards for the A checks asking for serial number to be logged acording to the A/C and possition of the items? if its robbery thats the problem make it something that must be done on a line check or a daily, they will get so fed up of writing serial numbers down every week the correct forms will be filled and filed when they are robbed.
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Does your Airlines stores not have a Bin card or electronic system of monitoring.
Its paperwork & accountability thats important.
Keeping a track of an item moved has to be done under an authority & certified for records.
regds
MEL
Its paperwork & accountability thats important.
Keeping a track of an item moved has to be done under an authority & certified for records.
regds
MEL
