The Independent - Scaremongering?
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The Independent - Scaremongering?
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Pilots and Engineers talk to each other mostly (face to face or othrwise) every day, all over the world regarding any defects on aircraft as rhey occur.
There is so much back up redundancy in a modern aircraft and approved legislation for rendering systems inoperative for short periods in complete safety whilst awaiting repair/replacement. It is our, collective, job (pilot/engineer) to make professional adult decisions on aircraft serviceability and ability to operate.
There is no taking off with serious faults effecting flight safety, that is a golden life preserving rule.
Mybe the odd inconseqential thing gets left until the end of the day on the odd flight in the odd airline but that would be about it.
I have worked for some very rough freight companies with old dogs for aircraft where lots of trivial items were ignored (and I mean very trivial) otherwise no company would make money - prettying up flying ****boxes is not anyones priority, they are workhorses... BUT even they attend the flight safety issues by the rules (eventually...spares permitting
)
There is so much back up redundancy in a modern aircraft and approved legislation for rendering systems inoperative for short periods in complete safety whilst awaiting repair/replacement. It is our, collective, job (pilot/engineer) to make professional adult decisions on aircraft serviceability and ability to operate.
There is no taking off with serious faults effecting flight safety, that is a golden life preserving rule.
Mybe the odd inconseqential thing gets left until the end of the day on the odd flight in the odd airline but that would be about it.
I have worked for some very rough freight companies with old dogs for aircraft where lots of trivial items were ignored (and I mean very trivial) otherwise no company would make money - prettying up flying ****boxes is not anyones priority, they are workhorses... BUT even they attend the flight safety issues by the rules (eventually...spares permitting
)
PPRuNe Engineering Dept Apprentice
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Ah, the anti-aviation Independable, as hated as, well, the Daily Hatred:
Good newspapers are dead and gone these days
Good newspapers are dead and gone these days
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I would like to think that our lot are pretty sensible. If there's a minor fault that's not in the MEL, bring it home and report it on the I/B leg. If it is in the MEL can it be deferred with advice from Maintrol? If yes, raise an ADD and bring it home. If no, find an engineer and spares to fix it.
It's all written down in the MEL, how difficult can it be? I have yet to meet a pilot who has operated outside it.
It's all written down in the MEL, how difficult can it be? I have yet to meet a pilot who has operated outside it.
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Lets be honest, its pretty cut and dried really.
No pilot is going to fly an unsafe aircraft, if he's got a problem downroute he calls maintrol and seeks advice. If that problem stops the flight, an engineer is sent to assess/fix it and recover the aircraft.
If the problem can be deferred, thats what the MEL is for, with the stipulations put in place it can be defered by either a licensed engineer or the captain as he is licensed and responsible for the safety of the aircraft as long as there are no maintenance actions required to allow onward passage.
Engineers and pilots nowadays talk pretty much on a level and both are ultimate professionals in this business, any pilot who won't talk a problem over with an engineer isn't worth the time in my opinion.
Years ago I had a captain on a long haul flight who arrived with a defect but insisted on the F/E trying to describe it. Unforturtunately the defect could only be felt tactilly by the captain through his column and he pointedly refused to talk to an engineer. We offloaded 300 pax and left him with his aircraft and the defect on the pan. After the F/E's 2nd visit to the line office (and being told unless the captain comes in person to discuss what he's feeling) the captain was informed by his company to speak to us in person and eventually arrived in the office.
The defect was resolved pretty quickly and the captain told in no uncertain terms what an idiot he was and the aircraft departed some hours later.
Thankfully the world has moved on and the relationships today between engineers and pilots are as equals .
No pilot is going to fly an unsafe aircraft, if he's got a problem downroute he calls maintrol and seeks advice. If that problem stops the flight, an engineer is sent to assess/fix it and recover the aircraft.
If the problem can be deferred, thats what the MEL is for, with the stipulations put in place it can be defered by either a licensed engineer or the captain as he is licensed and responsible for the safety of the aircraft as long as there are no maintenance actions required to allow onward passage.
Engineers and pilots nowadays talk pretty much on a level and both are ultimate professionals in this business, any pilot who won't talk a problem over with an engineer isn't worth the time in my opinion.
Years ago I had a captain on a long haul flight who arrived with a defect but insisted on the F/E trying to describe it. Unforturtunately the defect could only be felt tactilly by the captain through his column and he pointedly refused to talk to an engineer. We offloaded 300 pax and left him with his aircraft and the defect on the pan. After the F/E's 2nd visit to the line office (and being told unless the captain comes in person to discuss what he's feeling) the captain was informed by his company to speak to us in person and eventually arrived in the office.
The defect was resolved pretty quickly and the captain told in no uncertain terms what an idiot he was and the aircraft departed some hours later.
Thankfully the world has moved on and the relationships today between engineers and pilots are as equals .
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vortex
are you seriously suggesting that organisation's mentioned (AEI and ALEA) would risk their reputations on making the comments they have and releasing the press releases they have based on a few niff naff items?
are you seriously suggesting that organisation's mentioned (AEI and ALEA) would risk their reputations on making the comments they have and releasing the press releases they have based on a few niff naff items?
Any serious breaches with evidence should be directed to the authority if they have something.
Fishy fishy!
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Like Vortex, I'm not suggesting anything underhand is going on but the reality is that air travel is the safest form of transport and is so because both the pilots and engineers are consumate professionals and neither would consider allowing an aircraft to fly in an unsafe condition.
There are procedures in place to allow aircraft to fly with recorded defects (Mel/DDPG) and as long as the defect can be defered in accordance with the MEL/DDPG correctly with any maintenance or operational actions accounted for and cleared by the allotted time allowed, this is perfectly legal and normal pratice in every airline, dependent on their operating procedures.
If the ALAE or the AEI have concerns then rightly so they should be investigated but personally I would rather this done by discusion with the organisations concerned and the enginering members of both rather than through the press medium.
There are far bigger issues to discuss with regard to engineering in this industry, but this one will sell papers this weekend. I have just read the same story on a russian website with a photo of the Helios incident attached, looks good, sells papers but accurate????????????
There are procedures in place to allow aircraft to fly with recorded defects (Mel/DDPG) and as long as the defect can be defered in accordance with the MEL/DDPG correctly with any maintenance or operational actions accounted for and cleared by the allotted time allowed, this is perfectly legal and normal pratice in every airline, dependent on their operating procedures.
If the ALAE or the AEI have concerns then rightly so they should be investigated but personally I would rather this done by discusion with the organisations concerned and the enginering members of both rather than through the press medium.
There are far bigger issues to discuss with regard to engineering in this industry, but this one will sell papers this weekend. I have just read the same story on a russian website with a photo of the Helios incident attached, looks good, sells papers but accurate????????????
