SEP aircraft defects not logged

[All Up Weight]

My flying school follows a process whereby any aircraft defect is written down on a scrap piece of paper and then passed to the engineer for action (i.e. AH not level, radial discrepancies between two VOR's tuned to same VOR, wingtip strobes not working etc); the aircraft's logbook just records a 'NIL' entry against observed defects. I thought that defects should be raised in the aircraft's logbook so pilots can see the defects which have occurred and the action taken to resolve the defect or to label it as an acceptable defect ftb. Hence we have logbooks for some aircraft with no defects recorded whilst other aircraft have i.e. only one defect formally recorded say every 6 months.

Given the aviation industry is highly regulated, I would have thought more formal recording of defects should be in place. However, I'm no expert in this matter so would welcome some advice. Does the CAA have any material to define the type of defects which should be formally recorded?

It just worries me that as a PPL I could be flying aircraft with defects for which I'm not aware.

[Blink182]

Why not simply write up all the defects given to you on the scraps of paper into the tech log ???
Resolves the issue of un-recorded work , and provides traceability of any components changed .

[Paradism]

Uk Law

Since the question was raised by a UK located aviator, this is an extract from the current version of the ANO:
(4) Subject to paragraph (5), at the end of every flight by an aircraft to which this article applies the commander shall enter in the technical log or the approved record as the case may be:
(a) the times when the aircraft took off and landed;
(b) particulars of any defect which is known to him and which affects the
airworthiness or safe operation of the aircraft, or if no such defect is known to him, an entry to that effect; and
(c) such other particulars in respect of the airworthiness or operation of the aircraft as the CAA may require; and he shall sign and date the entries.
(5) In the case of two or more consecutive flights each of which begins and ends:
(a) within the same period of 24 hours;
(b) at the same aerodrome, except where each such flight is for the purpose of dropping or projecting any material for agricultural, public health or similar
purposes; and
(c) with the same person as commander of the aircraft; the commander may, except where he becomes aware of a defect during an earlier flight, make the entries specified in paragraph (4) at the end of the last of such consecutive flights.
Any method of recording other than the above, unless specifically permitted in writing by the authority, represents an offence against the ANO.

[All Up Weight]

Thanks for the comments.

Arfur ****-Sake - this could be my club!! My instructor told me he had been "reprimanded" by the engineer for making an entry in the Tech Log. In my opinion, this just creates a poor working relationship between instructors and the engineer.

I agree with toolowtoofast in that we need to differentiate between defects and observations particularly re: VFR and IRF flight requirements. Paradism's info is a great help in that, if I'm reading it correctly, the Tech Log contains defects which affect the airworthiness or safe operation of the aircraft - hence back to the point of distinguishing between defects and observations.

Thus for our flying club, it feels that a proper process in accordance with ANO rules should be established where the instructors, engineer and flying school owner can have a sensible dialogue regarding defects and agree upon then logging of such, where appropriate.

[208]

In my opinion write up everything, defer the allowable defects iaw MEL,
record of whats happening nobody can lose the defect

[Notar31]

Slippery Slope

There is a fine line when it comes to making log book entries. There are many things to take into account before you put pen to paper. I would suggest having a discussion with your engineer prior to putting anything in the log book. I have witnessed more than one occasion where the First officer writes up an item while the captain is not present. Upon the captains return we inform him he will not be flying this Aircraft because of lack of parts or the write up was a grounding item. Several of these were smaller items that the captain was fine with till they terminated at a maintenance base. Needless to say it was a long walk up the jetway for the F/O with the captain yelling at him. The more time you fly you'll figure out what to put in the logbook and what to put on scratch paper. Good Luck

[yamaha]

and people wonder why the UK has a safety statistic twice as good as the USA!

Thanks for the explanation Notar and I hope I never have the misfortune to come anywhere close to you.

[Notar31]

Ouch

Wow Settle down Yamaha. I was just trying to offer a bit of advice to the gentelman. I didnt mean to offend you. If you feel that putting every discrepency in the log book is the prudent thing to do good luck to you. The UK must have a great safety record with you putting everything in the log book. Planes dont have accidents when there sitting in the hangar.

[yamaha]

Your advice is at best nonsense and at worst life threatening.

There is no fine line. It goes in the book, end of conversation.
It's not about saving ego's, it's about saving lives

[Notar31]

So your telling me that every Discrepency you see on an aircraft should go in the book. Good god man have you actually ever seen a MM, SRM, WDM my friend it is so restrictive you could write pages and pages of discrepencies on any aircraft no commercial jet would ever fly or are you just talking about the ones that are so obvious even a Pilot could find it? My friend you are talking out your @$$. You just like to stir the pot. I feel sorry for the engineers where you work. Im sure the love ya. Im done with this conversation you really are the Village Idiot.

[yamaha]

Upon the captains return we inform him he will not be flying this Aircraft because of lack of parts or the write up was a grounding item. Several of these were smaller items that the captain was fine with till they terminated at a maintenance base.

You obviously have no idea what you are doing let alone what you are talking about. A small NO GO item that can wait until the end of the day?

Once you have grown up and finished your training then come back and make some sensible comments, they will be welcomed.

The fact that you resulted immediately to insults highlights your complete lack of knowledge and integrity.

[IFixPlanes]

Originally Posted by All Up Weight

...I'm no expert in this matter so would welcome some advice. ...

My advice is: Change the flying school.