ground crew duty time
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 313
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From: PLANET ZOG
We are all covered, if we want to be, by the European Working Time Directive!!!
The onus is on the individual to tell your company that he/she wishes to work within that limit which I believe is 37.5 hrs/week.
We, as a unit, have just done that very thing. Caused a bit of a stir within our H.R. dept. (if you can call it that) but after doing 97hrs. o/t on top of 12.5hr. days over a seventeen week period, we decided enough is enough! (With the odd couple of days off admittedly.)
As previously said, the extra money is very nice but does it surpass home life/ quality of life??
Work to live not the other way round. We are our own worst enemies. What does a driver do when he runs out of hours? He goes home with the companies blessing!
As long as we bend over, all companies will try to get the bat up a bit further.
The onus is on the individual to tell your company that he/she wishes to work within that limit which I believe is 37.5 hrs/week.
We, as a unit, have just done that very thing. Caused a bit of a stir within our H.R. dept. (if you can call it that) but after doing 97hrs. o/t on top of 12.5hr. days over a seventeen week period, we decided enough is enough! (With the odd couple of days off admittedly.)
As previously said, the extra money is very nice but does it surpass home life/ quality of life??
Work to live not the other way round. We are our own worst enemies. What does a driver do when he runs out of hours? He goes home with the companies blessing!
As long as we bend over, all companies will try to get the bat up a bit further.
Last edited by 3D CAM; 20th September 2007 at 13:57. Reason: additional words.
Joined: Feb 2006
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
what always got me in Airworthiness notices was the fact we were supposed to be able to determine ourselves if we were fit to do the job if alcohol or drugs had been used......... tell that to a plod giving you a breathalyser........ I am perfectly capable of driving this car, after all I have just signed out an airliner with a bunch of pax on..........
OK not a real case senario, but you know where I am coming from.......
OK not a real case senario, but you know where I am coming from.......
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 313
Likes: 2
From: PLANET ZOG
Eric.
Opt out or in?
We were assumed by our company to be opted out of the working time directive unless we told them otherwise, in writing.
As I previously said, we eventually did just that! (Opting back in.)
I am deliberately not saying which company!
Opt out or in?
We were assumed by our company to be opted out of the working time directive unless we told them otherwise, in writing.
As I previously said, we eventually did just that! (Opting back in.)
I am deliberately not saying which company!
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Island Paradise
CAANZ PT145 Duty limits
145.52 Maintenance personnel duty time limitations
An applicant for the grant of a maintenance organisation certificate must establish procedures to ensure that a person who is authorised under rule 145.60 to perform or supervise maintenance, or to certify release-to-service, or to certify conformity to acceptable data is relieved from duty for— - (1) a period of at least 8 consecutive hours in the 24-hour period immediately before exercising the authorisation; and
- (2) at least 4 periods of at least 24 consecutive hours each in the 30-day period immediately before exercising the authorisation.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 117
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From: OVER THE RAINBOW
Regarding PacificMarlin quote
145.52 Maintenance personnel duty time limitations
An applicant for the grant of a maintenance organisation certificate must establish procedures to ensure that a person who is authorised under rule 145.60
................
Anybody got a copy of any procedures or sample I could see. (will send you a digital beer/whiskey of choice in thanks
)
We in RSA have the same rule coming into CAA law very soon (was announced 2 weeks ago). Its about time the ruling is being implemented, as we have been our own worse enemy continuing with an AOG snag when we know we are tired and most engineering management agree with the new law, as they can stop the bean counters pressurizing thm to push the limits.
How does the law work in practice in NZ? (was there a requirement to hire more engineers/problems with overtime? etc etc)
Which other authories have the duty time for engineers in place?
Interesting I see no reference in JAR/FAA regs for duty time limits for engineers (Check e.g. FAA FAR 145s, so unless somebody can give me a direct link, I can find nothing) Found lots of studies/workshops/conferences but no legal implementation.
EASA seems to have basically said the EU Directive on Working hours will cover the issue. Am I correct in assuming this?
145.52 Maintenance personnel duty time limitations
An applicant for the grant of a maintenance organisation certificate must establish procedures to ensure that a person who is authorised under rule 145.60
................
Anybody got a copy of any procedures or sample I could see. (will send you a digital beer/whiskey of choice in thanks
)We in RSA have the same rule coming into CAA law very soon (was announced 2 weeks ago). Its about time the ruling is being implemented, as we have been our own worse enemy continuing with an AOG snag when we know we are tired and most engineering management agree with the new law, as they can stop the bean counters pressurizing thm to push the limits.
How does the law work in practice in NZ? (was there a requirement to hire more engineers/problems with overtime? etc etc)
Which other authories have the duty time for engineers in place?
Interesting I see no reference in JAR/FAA regs for duty time limits for engineers (Check e.g. FAA FAR 145s, so unless somebody can give me a direct link, I can find nothing) Found lots of studies/workshops/conferences but no legal implementation.
EASA seems to have basically said the EU Directive on Working hours will cover the issue. Am I correct in assuming this?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 210
Likes: 20
From: Denver, Colorado, USA
Us Far 121.377
Whiskeyflyer,
What you are look for is this in the US:
§ 121.377 Maintenance and preventive maintenance personnel duty time limitations.
Within the United States, each certificate holder (or person performing maintenance or preventive maintenance functions for it) shall relieve each person performing maintenance or preventive maintenance from duty for a period of at least 24 consecutive hours during any seven consecutive days, or the equivalent thereof within any one calendar month.
Note that this is only for FAR 121 (airline) operations. I did not see the same rule in 91, 135 or 145. Some state's labor law require time and a half for every hour worked past 12 in one shift, so that might be more of a stopping point than anything else. But the way this rule is written, you could work 26 straight days, get 4 off, and do it again month after month after month.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 117
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From: OVER THE RAINBOW
thanks mmttech for the 121.377 FAA reference
I was scratching around part 145 looking for what you supplied
Looks like no limits on daily hours but thanks for the heads up on individual state law.
In my opinion Part 135 operators are where the long hours mainly arise
I was scratching around part 145 looking for what you supplied
Looks like no limits on daily hours but thanks for the heads up on individual state law.
In my opinion Part 135 operators are where the long hours mainly arise
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,117
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From: On the western edge of The Moor
For UK & Ec workers these are worth a read.
http://www.berr.gov.uk/employment/em...page28978.html
Note the following paragraphs: -
In other words you are subject to it unless you agree to opt out of it. I would suggest any employer that says different is in breech of the law
And
http://www.berr.gov.uk/employment/em...page28979.html
Daily rest
A worker is entitled to a rest period of 11 uninterrupted hours between each working day.
Weekly rest
A worker is entitled to one whole day off a week.
I have only quoted bits from questions seen earlier in the thread - the whole lot is worth a careful read.
http://www.berr.gov.uk/employment/em...page28978.html
Note the following paragraphs: -
Where the regulations do not apply
Air transport, as covered by the Aviation Directive (2000/79/EC). This Directive affects all mobile workers in commercial air transport (both flight crew and cabin crew), but not workers employed in General Aviation
Air transport, as covered by the Aviation Directive (2000/79/EC). This Directive affects all mobile workers in commercial air transport (both flight crew and cabin crew), but not workers employed in General Aviation
On 1 August 2003, the Working Time Regulations extend cover to the following sectors:
Workers in air transport, other than those covered by the Aviation Directive
Workers in air transport, other than those covered by the Aviation Directive
What if a worker agrees to work longer hours?
An individual worker may agree to work more than 48 hours a week. If so, he or she should sign an opt-out agreement, which they can cancel at any time. The employer and worker can agree how much notice is needed to cancel the agreement, which can be up to three months. In the absence of an agreed notice period, the worker needs to give a minimum of seven days' notice of cancellation.
Employers cannot force a worker to sign an opt-out. Any opt-out must be agreed to. Workers cannot be fairly dismissed or subjected to detriment for refusing to sign an opt-out.
Employers must keep a record of who has agreed to work longer hours.
An individual worker may agree to work more than 48 hours a week. If so, he or she should sign an opt-out agreement, which they can cancel at any time. The employer and worker can agree how much notice is needed to cancel the agreement, which can be up to three months. In the absence of an agreed notice period, the worker needs to give a minimum of seven days' notice of cancellation.
Employers cannot force a worker to sign an opt-out. Any opt-out must be agreed to. Workers cannot be fairly dismissed or subjected to detriment for refusing to sign an opt-out.
Employers must keep a record of who has agreed to work longer hours.
And
http://www.berr.gov.uk/employment/em...page28979.html
Daily rest
A worker is entitled to a rest period of 11 uninterrupted hours between each working day.
Weekly rest
A worker is entitled to one whole day off a week.
