Entry Level Jobs....Anything?....Anywhere?
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Entry Level Jobs....Anything?....Anywhere?
I was wondering if anyone knew of any jobs in the aircraft maintenance/engineering sector in the UK that is open to people just getting there HNC in Aero Engineering. Im finding it quite difficult if not impossible.
It seems EVERYONE wants an ungodly of experience that, to me, doesnt seem very realistic. I mean, if an engineer has a JAA license, wouldnt he usually already have a good job?
Anyway, if anyone knows about any openings, could you PLEAAASEE let me know. Im borderline desperate.
It seems EVERYONE wants an ungodly of experience that, to me, doesnt seem very realistic. I mean, if an engineer has a JAA license, wouldnt he usually already have a good job?
Anyway, if anyone knows about any openings, could you PLEAAASEE let me know. Im borderline desperate.
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Is there any forgein ex-students in Scotland who got a job in the UK? Im getting nothing but static and wild goose chases. I was told by a company that said they dont apply for work visas but would help with a work permit....
Does anyone have any advice...Im all confuzzled now
Does anyone have any advice...Im all confuzzled now
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Could you possibly do this?
http://www.flymonarch.com/cnt/jobs/vacancy.asp?jId=614
I remember Britannia (now Thomson0 used to run one as well..
Horgy
http://www.flymonarch.com/cnt/jobs/vacancy.asp?jId=614
I remember Britannia (now Thomson0 used to run one as well..
Horgy
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Have you considered Virgin Atlantic ?
They run an apprenticeship, which although is closed for this year, might be worth contacting them about. They don't advertise it on the internet, so a kindly worded e-mail or letter to them might be worth it just to get some info
They run an apprenticeship, which although is closed for this year, might be worth contacting them about. They don't advertise it on the internet, so a kindly worded e-mail or letter to them might be worth it just to get some info
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Monarch Engineering are advertising their apprenticeship in the current issue of Flight. Closing date is 31 May.
You'll already be better qualified technically than a BTec National Cert at the start, but you did specify an entry level job...
You'll already be better qualified technically than a BTec National Cert at the start, but you did specify an entry level job...
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Hey this is Engineering_Wannabe's girlfriend, he is an American studying here on a student visa, could he still apply for these apprenticeships even though he is an American citizen?
Cheers
Cheers
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Depends, normally you'd need to right to permanent residence in this country before they would look at employing you. And a work permit to boot. You could always give Monarch a call and see what they said - and also ask at the Embassy. Some professions (especially engineers) can sometimes be given the right to remain based on what economic benefit they might bring the country.
Of course, that's just what I remember. You should really ask the Home Office for professional guidance. Call them on 0845 010 5200 or look at http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/
Horgy
Of course, that's just what I remember. You should really ask the Home Office for professional guidance. Call them on 0845 010 5200 or look at http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/
Horgy
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Hey, thanks for the number will pass it on to him.
Do you guys know what he could work as since he will be aquiring a HNC in aircraft engineering, this is also practical work. Some people are saying hes too old and over qualified to be an apprentice and others that he has no experiance to be a mechanic so theres no middle ground, this is like a wild goose chase.
He called Monarch, they are going to send him an info pack.
Do you guys know what he could work as since he will be aquiring a HNC in aircraft engineering, this is also practical work. Some people are saying hes too old and over qualified to be an apprentice and others that he has no experiance to be a mechanic so theres no middle ground, this is like a wild goose chase.
He called Monarch, they are going to send him an info pack.
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See if he can't contact a Part 145 company and start doing some free-of-charge work experience of an evening in a hangar or on the line. It'll give him valuable experience of both working on aircraft, and may go a long way towards getting himself a job.
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Hi there, do you know of any of these companies in the west of Scotland? I dont know where to look i know he has applied to some other maintenance companies.
Cheers
Cheers
With only HNC I'd argue that you're in a bit of a difficult position - you aren't really looking for a job, you're looking for more training. The question is, as what?
I'd suggest that from where you are you need to go one of two directions, depending upon whether you have an aspiration to wear a suit and do difficult analytical problems, or wear overalls and solve difficult maintenance problems.
Either....
(1) Start looking hard at apprenticeships: e.g. BA, BAE, Qinetiq, AgustaWestland....
(2) Apply for a place on an appropriate degree: e.g. Aerospace Engineering or Mechanical Engineer, somewhere like Southampton, Brunel, Sheffield, Glasgow...
With one of those behind you, you can really start looking for that REAL first job.
G
I'd suggest that from where you are you need to go one of two directions, depending upon whether you have an aspiration to wear a suit and do difficult analytical problems, or wear overalls and solve difficult maintenance problems.
Either....
(1) Start looking hard at apprenticeships: e.g. BA, BAE, Qinetiq, AgustaWestland....
(2) Apply for a place on an appropriate degree: e.g. Aerospace Engineering or Mechanical Engineer, somewhere like Southampton, Brunel, Sheffield, Glasgow...
With one of those behind you, you can really start looking for that REAL first job.
G
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With an HNC, not being a UK national and trying to get into an apprenticeship, I would suggest the chances are up there with a snowball in a fiery place.
I don't know any organisations that would take on a non-UK national for 3 years of training only for that person not to be able to work for you at the end of it. Why should they spend time and money helping somebody get residency or whatever when there are hundreds of safer bets queueing up for an apprenticeship? Apprenticeships cost companies a lot of wonga and they do it for business reasons - to keep progression of people through their organisation going, nothing altruistic about it.
This might be a bit controversial to put into print but why invest in and train up a foreign national who may well up sticks and leave at the end of it when little Joey down the road will bite your arm off for the job and live happily ever after half a mile a way with mum and dad then marry the school days sweetheart and settle down.
Also, why would a company take on an apprentice who already has the educational qualification that they will be putting their apprentices through? Most companies will take on a few apprentices to get economy of scale. Take on somebody who already has the educational qualification and you would end up with a two tier system that costs more to manage. Might work if you find a smaller company looking for 1 apprentice that would welcome avoiding the educational costs. Also, wouldn't you be bored senseless re-doing the same classroom stuff you've been doing for the last two years? Risk for the employer is that the person jacks it in because bored and investment is lost.
Apprentice pay is very low. Would you want to commit to three years of low pay after suffering two years on student loans or whatever?
What value is an HNC? Questionable as far as I'm concerned. Without being able to show competency on the tools there is no use having a brain the size of a planet - you have no value to a company. It may get a foot in the door as a mechanic but they will take a Kwik-Fit fitter first because they know they can use their hands and can educate them enough for what they want out of them.
There are a hell of a lot of colleges and universities offering NVQ's, NC's, HNC's, foundation degrees, full degrees, etc in aeronautics but not having in place possibly the most important thing when it comes to these courses and that is good hand skills training and work placements. Personally, I think some higher education establishments are ripping people off with offerings of wonderful career prospects if you do their courses.
What has brought on this glut of academic courses? Studies and articles have been published about the shrinking work force, the increase in air transport, people not wanting to be engineers, etc. Colleges see all this and think "Hey, there's a demand out there for a course. I'm going to fill that and make lots of money for my college." However, they look at what needs to be done to get (and maintain) a Part 147 approval and think "Sod that, I'm not going to do all that so I can sell B1/B2 courses, I'll sell HNC's instead. People see them as a good qualification and maybe won't see the pitfalls until it's too late."
Best thing any college could do is to sign up with a major maintenance organisation to do a course like the old degree sandwich course. You go to college for 2 years, get your HNC and have a guaranteed work placement at the end of it (or in the middle) for the 18 months or whatever is required - college can sell a meaningful course, organisation gets cheap labour and student gets valuable hands on experience. That would be an apprenticeship in any other words but the difference is that it is not the maintenance organisations responsibility to manage the program, employ the students or all the other stuff that goes along with permies. The college would be responsible for all that. Minimum risk and cost to the employer, maximum benefit to the student.
I'm sorry if all the above disheartens people studying HNC's or the like. I personally think this is a great industry to be in (plenty other people on here don't but that's up to them) and would welcome them into it with open arms. This industry needs new people but industry and the colleges must work together to produce people with the knowledge, skills and capabilities that the industry can use.
I wish everybody in these programs the best of luck, I really do, but maybe some people have not been given the best advice before embarking on this road.
I don't know any organisations that would take on a non-UK national for 3 years of training only for that person not to be able to work for you at the end of it. Why should they spend time and money helping somebody get residency or whatever when there are hundreds of safer bets queueing up for an apprenticeship? Apprenticeships cost companies a lot of wonga and they do it for business reasons - to keep progression of people through their organisation going, nothing altruistic about it.
This might be a bit controversial to put into print but why invest in and train up a foreign national who may well up sticks and leave at the end of it when little Joey down the road will bite your arm off for the job and live happily ever after half a mile a way with mum and dad then marry the school days sweetheart and settle down.
Also, why would a company take on an apprentice who already has the educational qualification that they will be putting their apprentices through? Most companies will take on a few apprentices to get economy of scale. Take on somebody who already has the educational qualification and you would end up with a two tier system that costs more to manage. Might work if you find a smaller company looking for 1 apprentice that would welcome avoiding the educational costs. Also, wouldn't you be bored senseless re-doing the same classroom stuff you've been doing for the last two years? Risk for the employer is that the person jacks it in because bored and investment is lost.
Apprentice pay is very low. Would you want to commit to three years of low pay after suffering two years on student loans or whatever?
What value is an HNC? Questionable as far as I'm concerned. Without being able to show competency on the tools there is no use having a brain the size of a planet - you have no value to a company. It may get a foot in the door as a mechanic but they will take a Kwik-Fit fitter first because they know they can use their hands and can educate them enough for what they want out of them.
There are a hell of a lot of colleges and universities offering NVQ's, NC's, HNC's, foundation degrees, full degrees, etc in aeronautics but not having in place possibly the most important thing when it comes to these courses and that is good hand skills training and work placements. Personally, I think some higher education establishments are ripping people off with offerings of wonderful career prospects if you do their courses.
What has brought on this glut of academic courses? Studies and articles have been published about the shrinking work force, the increase in air transport, people not wanting to be engineers, etc. Colleges see all this and think "Hey, there's a demand out there for a course. I'm going to fill that and make lots of money for my college." However, they look at what needs to be done to get (and maintain) a Part 147 approval and think "Sod that, I'm not going to do all that so I can sell B1/B2 courses, I'll sell HNC's instead. People see them as a good qualification and maybe won't see the pitfalls until it's too late."
Best thing any college could do is to sign up with a major maintenance organisation to do a course like the old degree sandwich course. You go to college for 2 years, get your HNC and have a guaranteed work placement at the end of it (or in the middle) for the 18 months or whatever is required - college can sell a meaningful course, organisation gets cheap labour and student gets valuable hands on experience. That would be an apprenticeship in any other words but the difference is that it is not the maintenance organisations responsibility to manage the program, employ the students or all the other stuff that goes along with permies. The college would be responsible for all that. Minimum risk and cost to the employer, maximum benefit to the student.
I'm sorry if all the above disheartens people studying HNC's or the like. I personally think this is a great industry to be in (plenty other people on here don't but that's up to them) and would welcome them into it with open arms. This industry needs new people but industry and the colleges must work together to produce people with the knowledge, skills and capabilities that the industry can use.
I wish everybody in these programs the best of luck, I really do, but maybe some people have not been given the best advice before embarking on this road.
Yes, Captain, they ALWAYS give us superfluous bits!
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To be honest, I echo Sonic Bams' sentiments.
However, if you do the HND/BSc (assuming you are at Perth or the like) follow up from your HNC, you can then get a 2 year permit (Fresh Talent, or something like it) on top of your student visa. (the overseas bit of the school should be able to advise you) Meanwhile, sit your Part 66 modules and then when you apply for jobs, you will have something to show towards getting the license.
Remember, Airside, Licenses count, not necessarily the acedemic qualification. You may find a higher acedemic qualification a hinderance without at least some Part 66 modules.(As SB said, 'Without being able to show competency on the tools there is no use having a brain the size of a planet - you have no value to a company')
Best of luck
However, if you do the HND/BSc (assuming you are at Perth or the like) follow up from your HNC, you can then get a 2 year permit (Fresh Talent, or something like it) on top of your student visa. (the overseas bit of the school should be able to advise you) Meanwhile, sit your Part 66 modules and then when you apply for jobs, you will have something to show towards getting the license.
Remember, Airside, Licenses count, not necessarily the acedemic qualification. You may find a higher acedemic qualification a hinderance without at least some Part 66 modules.(As SB said, 'Without being able to show competency on the tools there is no use having a brain the size of a planet - you have no value to a company')
Best of luck
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Well firstly we cant afford it, its £5,500 which in my opinion being a national isn't worth it when all these little neds are getting jobs when I know Michael is one of the smartest people that I know.
the college that he goes to advised him that he could get an apprenticeship no bother so I assume this is all "lies"
He has applied to many companies and we're still waiting on word.
I dont understand why the government has schemes in place and they keep saying that they will take on talented foreign nationals when they're not even giving him a chance when I know he can do a better job than some.
I spoke to the maintenance manager of PAML and he advised me that they take on foreign nationals with HNC as it is a valued qualification. Its pretty discriminating that they will take on stupid neds before genuine smart, dedicated candidates. We'll see how it goes.
the college that he goes to advised him that he could get an apprenticeship no bother so I assume this is all "lies"
He has applied to many companies and we're still waiting on word.
I dont understand why the government has schemes in place and they keep saying that they will take on talented foreign nationals when they're not even giving him a chance when I know he can do a better job than some.
I spoke to the maintenance manager of PAML and he advised me that they take on foreign nationals with HNC as it is a valued qualification. Its pretty discriminating that they will take on stupid neds before genuine smart, dedicated candidates. We'll see how it goes.
I hope you'll forgive a bit of bluntness, but I think it's probably necessary.
(1) UK government is only likely to give a working visa in an area where there's a large skills shortage.
(2) Of course the colleges will say there's plenty of apprenticeships after doing their HNC: they want your money on the HNC course.
(3) The government will not pay for training for foreigners whilst we have a large unemployed population in the UK - why should it?
(4) No company is going to pay for training for anybody they can't then employ.
Frankly, Engineering_wannabe from what I read here, you've got several choices...
(a) Pay for your own further training until you are employable enough that Her Majesties Government considers you worth a visa)
(b) Become British
(c) Move back to your home country and take advantage of the opportunities there.
These may seem unpalatable, but it's how it is I believe.
G
(1) UK government is only likely to give a working visa in an area where there's a large skills shortage.
(2) Of course the colleges will say there's plenty of apprenticeships after doing their HNC: they want your money on the HNC course.
(3) The government will not pay for training for foreigners whilst we have a large unemployed population in the UK - why should it?
(4) No company is going to pay for training for anybody they can't then employ.
Frankly, Engineering_wannabe from what I read here, you've got several choices...
(a) Pay for your own further training until you are employable enough that Her Majesties Government considers you worth a visa)
(b) Become British
(c) Move back to your home country and take advantage of the opportunities there.
These may seem unpalatable, but it's how it is I believe.
G
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Hi, I called the home office and they advised me that there is a shortage in Aircraft maintenance, I've actually heard quite a few people say that. I work for Ryanair and I spoke to the head of PAML, they are interested in him because of his skills. Obviously he cannot get a full good paying job all he needs is his foot in the door - an apprenticeship. He is willing to pay for his apprenticeship but he has no idea how much it costs.
Thanks for your advice. There are no real opportunities in the US, that is why he came here. I think you need around 5 years residency here before you are eligible for citizenship.
We're just really stuck at the moment, I dont want him to go home.
Thanks for your advice. There are no real opportunities in the US, that is why he came here. I think you need around 5 years residency here before you are eligible for citizenship.
We're just really stuck at the moment, I dont want him to go home.
What about the aircraft maintenance degree route.
One UK university is offering this. It leads to B1 or B2 and C licence.
www.newcastleaviation.co.uk
You still have to get field experience but the university would assist with a placement.
One UK university is offering this. It leads to B1 or B2 and C licence.
www.newcastleaviation.co.uk
You still have to get field experience but the university would assist with a placement.
Last edited by ericferret; 18th May 2007 at 12:32.
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Interesting but we both have no cash to splash since he would need to pay for it himself and im guessing its going to be more than £5,500. We were told he could get an apprenticeship after his HNC and being a US citizen.
