I wish they would change this heading
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
I wish they would change this heading
Engineers & Technicians In this day and age of increased CRM and safety awareness, a forum for the guys and girls who keep our a/c servicable.
Is it me or does this just sound so patronising? They are not yours or anyone elses, bar the company that owns them.
Is it me or does this just sound so patronising? They are not yours or anyone elses, bar the company that owns them.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: UK
I maintain my own.
Other peoples, I design, test and analyse. Actually nowadays I mostly teach other people how to.
The problem is, aircrew (such as possibly those who run this forum!) often believe that aeroplanes magic themselves into existence, and then all they need is flying and maintaining until eventually you scrap them.
I shouldn't worry - both our professions are essential, and I've heard some pretty patronising things said about aircrew by engineers over the years, we all survive it.
Engineers and Technicians A forum for the non-flying (and occasionally flying) technical professionals who really ensure safe and successful aviation.
G
Other peoples, I design, test and analyse. Actually nowadays I mostly teach other people how to.
The problem is, aircrew (such as possibly those who run this forum!) often believe that aeroplanes magic themselves into existence, and then all they need is flying and maintaining until eventually you scrap them.
I shouldn't worry - both our professions are essential, and I've heard some pretty patronising things said about aircrew by engineers over the years, we all survive it.
Engineers and Technicians A forum for the non-flying (and occasionally flying) technical professionals who really ensure safe and successful aviation.
G
Cunning Artificer
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
A few years back we acquired some Airbooses. The scheduling committee tried drawing up a nice efficient schedule for their operation that included no maintenance downtime. When we queried this, they responded with "...Aerospatial advised us they were maintenance free for the first six years..." 
As for keeping them serviceable, we do a lot more than that but only the handful of pilots who get assigned to jobs like "Fleet Technical Captain" ever get to more than scratch the surface. Lets face it boys and girls, we'll never be anything more than just "Blunties" * to the Two Winged Master Race.
*...and "Blunties" is the polite expression. I've been called worse. To my face.
As for keeping them serviceable, we do a lot more than that but only the handful of pilots who get assigned to jobs like "Fleet Technical Captain" ever get to more than scratch the surface. Lets face it boys and girls, we'll never be anything more than just "Blunties" * to the Two Winged Master Race.
*...and "Blunties" is the polite expression. I've been called worse. To my face.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: In your head.
Come on guys...you're hurting my feelings now
Blacksheep, If a member of my crew ever insulted an engineer he'd be dragged around the back of the bike sheds for a swift lesson in manners and decorum.
Nutloose, A different spin on "our a/c". Not in terms of ownership but more the kind of feelings you have for, maybe, an errant child or your favourite car. When I know the different foibles for each individual a/c I fly, be it a strange vibration, or the way it handles ,if only slightly differently to another, you begin to develop a strange king of affinity with it. And I'm sure the same can be said for you when the same a/c keeps cropping up with the same old problem! I don't own it, neither do you, but for the few hours a day I get to fly it, and the few hours a day or night you get to take it apart and put it back together again it IS ours.
I like to try and work closely with our engineers when we have a problem, I like to know what you're talking about becasue it helps US get the job done. I can't always understand the repercussions of a problem just by reading the MEL, my best source of information about the a/c is YOU. Granted there are some captains who think they are the "Two winged master race" but I hope that they are a minority. I aint one of them!
Chesty
Blacksheep, If a member of my crew ever insulted an engineer he'd be dragged around the back of the bike sheds for a swift lesson in manners and decorum.
Nutloose, A different spin on "our a/c". Not in terms of ownership but more the kind of feelings you have for, maybe, an errant child or your favourite car. When I know the different foibles for each individual a/c I fly, be it a strange vibration, or the way it handles ,if only slightly differently to another, you begin to develop a strange king of affinity with it. And I'm sure the same can be said for you when the same a/c keeps cropping up with the same old problem! I don't own it, neither do you, but for the few hours a day I get to fly it, and the few hours a day or night you get to take it apart and put it back together again it IS ours.
I like to try and work closely with our engineers when we have a problem, I like to know what you're talking about becasue it helps US get the job done. I can't always understand the repercussions of a problem just by reading the MEL, my best source of information about the a/c is YOU. Granted there are some captains who think they are the "Two winged master race" but I hope that they are a minority. I aint one of them!
Chesty
Cunning Artificer
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
I take it you're one of the nice friendly chaps that sometimes pops into the shed for a chat about systems engineering then Chesty?
I must admit that in four decades I've only been seriously insulted (to my face) on three occasions. One was an RAF VC10 skipper who refused to speak to me personally and addressed me through his Flight Engineer. Another was a Belfast skipper who was offended at getting a mere Corporal to attend to his problem instead of the Jengo. His tirade involved the use of the words monkey and grease but not in that order. The third was a helicopter pilot who pointedly wiped down a Whirlwind's 'mounting handles' with a tissue when I vacated the cockpit to let him in and then handed me the tissue for disposal.
I can't remember how many times I've heard groundcrew referred to indirectly by obnoxious names, but we do have our own names for aircrew too... At squadron parties 103 Squadron groundcrew would sing a song based on the Jungle Book - "Oobi Doo! I wanna be aircrew-oo-ooh! I wanna fly like you, in da sky like you, oo-oo-ooh.... etc." that wasn't very complimentary.
A memorable incident sticks out - one Sunday evening I was taking the Schermulies off the CDS's Gazelle on overtime, before it flew down the river to Battersea. The CDS noticed we were the same crew who had shipped him out early that morning. He told his helicopter pilot to take the groundcrew to the squadron bar and set them up with a pint when he got back. Guess who the helicopter pilot was.
I must admit that in four decades I've only been seriously insulted (to my face) on three occasions. One was an RAF VC10 skipper who refused to speak to me personally and addressed me through his Flight Engineer. Another was a Belfast skipper who was offended at getting a mere Corporal to attend to his problem instead of the Jengo. His tirade involved the use of the words monkey and grease but not in that order. The third was a helicopter pilot who pointedly wiped down a Whirlwind's 'mounting handles' with a tissue when I vacated the cockpit to let him in and then handed me the tissue for disposal.
I can't remember how many times I've heard groundcrew referred to indirectly by obnoxious names, but we do have our own names for aircrew too... At squadron parties 103 Squadron groundcrew would sing a song based on the Jungle Book - "Oobi Doo! I wanna be aircrew-oo-ooh! I wanna fly like you, in da sky like you, oo-oo-ooh.... etc." that wasn't very complimentary.
A memorable incident sticks out - one Sunday evening I was taking the Schermulies off the CDS's Gazelle on overtime, before it flew down the river to Battersea. The CDS noticed we were the same crew who had shipped him out early that morning. He told his helicopter pilot to take the groundcrew to the squadron bar and set them up with a pint when he got back. Guess who the helicopter pilot was.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: In your head.
Well Systems Engineering is probably a bit over my head
I do pop down to the boys crewroom whenever time permits for a chat and a bit of banter (nothing to do with their t.v., comfy sofa, or kettle ), and to shoot the breeze with them. Talk about what ever the hell we feel like, slag off the company, new mods, new aeroplanes and that kind of stuff.
The kind of behaviour you've described smacks of elitism at it's worst. If my F/o ever did anything like that I'd offer him up to you before I had my tuppence worth! Definitely a superiority complex!
As far as I'm concerned we all work towards the same goal and there's no point rubbing someone up the wrong way. Even if you don't see eye to eye!
Hopefully one day you'll let me have a go in one of your aeroplanes
Chesty
I do pop down to the boys crewroom whenever time permits for a chat and a bit of banter (nothing to do with their t.v., comfy sofa, or kettle
), and to shoot the breeze with them. Talk about what ever the hell we feel like, slag off the company, new mods, new aeroplanes and that kind of stuff.The kind of behaviour you've described smacks of elitism at it's worst. If my F/o ever did anything like that I'd offer him up to you before I had my tuppence worth! Definitely a superiority complex!
As far as I'm concerned we all work towards the same goal and there's no point rubbing someone up the wrong way. Even if you don't see eye to eye!
Hopefully one day you'll let me have a go in one of your aeroplanes
Chesty
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 140
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From: aintsaying
Aviation is a TEAM sport.
Unfortunately many people on all sides of the aviation team forget this, and think they are the reason we are all here. You know - the cog in a machine story.
Chesty Morgan,
As for dragging someone out the back for talking down to someone from another department, those days are long gone. Would be nice to have them back.
Blacksheep,
I too have memories of incidents like you describe from my military days. But when I left the Airforce, I ran into some of those Aircrew members. And I must admit I now believe in: what goes around, comes around.
Unfortunately many people on all sides of the aviation team forget this, and think they are the reason we are all here. You know - the cog in a machine story.
Chesty Morgan,
As for dragging someone out the back for talking down to someone from another department, those days are long gone. Would be nice to have them back.
Blacksheep,
I too have memories of incidents like you describe from my military days. But when I left the Airforce, I ran into some of those Aircrew members. And I must admit I now believe in: what goes around, comes around.
